London Royal Mint cupronickel "replacement programme"

[ZenOps]

http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-co ... eplacement

Ok, thats definitely a way to word it - haha!

"In January 2013, the Royal Mint will begin a programme to recover cupronickel five pence and ten pence coins from circulation.

All new five pence and ten pence coins have been made from nickel-plated steel since January 2012 and to date 330 million nickel-plated steel coins have been issued into circulation.

This programme will recover the metal alloy contained in the old specification coins. The value of the metal in both the cupronickel and nickel-plated steel coins is still less than their face value."

Uh huh... They are culling their cupronickel even though its still only half face value The next coin up is the 20 pence five gram (exact same weight as a US nickel) but about 32 US cents face value, and only 16% nickel (0.8 grams of nickel per twenty pee)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty_pence_(British_coin) .

[AGgressive Metal]

I noticed the new ones seemed clad. This is too bad for our British cousins.

[ZenOps]

I was guessing on which country would fall last, the US or Britain. It looks like the US nickel will be the last coin of any reasonable value.

In retrospect, I'm actually a little bit surprised at how long it took. The US dollar has been exceptionally strong when compared to other currencies like the Rupee.

There is always a chance that the US will debase its entire coin line (nickel, dime, quarter and half) instead of just the nickel, which would completely remove the "baseline" of 165 dimes equalling one ounce of nickel. Canadians debased to iron for the nickel dime quarter and halve since 1999.

[henrysmedford]

Uh huh... They are culling their cupronickel even though its still only half face value

Face value is set by the government when it is monetized and they have the power to demonetized there own coins for them to melt them. That why Canada is melting up to $1 coins.
http://www.brinksinc.com/journalArchive/Brinks_Journal_Issue11.pdf

In 2008, discussions and negotiations commenced to provide
Alloy Recovery Program services (ARP) in Toronto. The ARP
separates steel plated coins from alloy coins in quarters, dimes
and nickels, at which point the Mint demonetizes and sends them
to U.S. smelting operations to extract the specific alloys that will
be for sale on the world market.

[scyther]

Yet another country destroying its last semblance of real money... very sad. As annoying as it is for potential hoarders, I certainly can't blame the governments for their ARPs. It's all going to be gone eventually, may as well get it before everyone else does. I actually find this more respectable than what the US is doing. The nickel reached face value in, what, 2006? And 6 years later they're still making them in CuNi? That's mind-bogglingly absurd . Instead of just debasing the coinage the moment it hit face value and extracting what they could before it became profitable for others to do it, they made a law criminalizing a common-sense economic decision and then sat on it for 6+ years while doing nothing to change the situation. That's not to say that I'm not glad we still have 100% CuNi nickels (I am) or that other countries don't also have melt bans (I know Canada does, and it wouldn't surprise me if the UK did too), but I just think the US mint's actions have been quite ridiculous and other countries are at least acting somewhat rationally.

[highroller4321]

Only a matter of time until the U.S starts this program.

[ZenOps]

If you want my conspiracy theory as to why the US hasn't started yet:

The US does not have an approximate 8 gram $2 coin yet. If one were to standardize on a global currency right this very second, a $2 8-gram cupronickel coin would without doubt be the workhorse circulation coin. In order for the US to start circulating $1 or $2 they need at least 8 coins per person for 311 million people (about 2.4 billion coins of any particular denomination)

So in fact, other countries have to reduce thier nickel stockpiles (and not even stockpiles but regular coinage) and sell some to the US so that they can start ramping up $2 coin production (could take several years to make a few billion cupronickel coins with adequate counterfeit technology)

As long as the US places export restrictions on the coinage, its a lot easier to "call it in" when it comes time to make more 8-gram copper dollars and 8.5 gram cupronickel $2 US coins.

But convincing the US population to use the 8-gram copper dollar coins instead of a dollar bill would probably be the single most important "real" economic decision that can be taken.

[silverflake]

Its no longer conspiracy theory to say that governments are taking away all ways that citizens can hold any kind of value at all. We all know the U.S. is next. No more penny soon enough, change the nickel (at least) to steel, continue devaluing the dollar. How long before private ownership of land is no longer legal? Prior to 1933 if we lost faith in the dollar we could walk up to a bank window and exchange a paper $20 for a $20 gold piece (a lot of money back then, yes). Prior to 1965, we could walk up to a bank window and exchange a paper $20 bill for 40 silver half dollars (or whatever fractional silver was available). Shoot, prior to 1982 we could walk up to a bank window and exchange a $20 bill for 2000 95% copper pennies. What have we come to?

Keep stacking!

[ZenOps]

And just in case anyone thinks an 8.5 gram cupronickel $2 US piece is far fetched...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_pounds_(British_coin)

Britain does have 28.8 gram cupronickel five pound denomination coins (formerly full crowns) a little over $7 US face.

As far as I can tell, they are circulated even less than 15.6 gram half ounce Canadian dollars (7 gram dollars are infinitely more common in circulation) People really tend to hoard them even though they command only a fraction more than face - if anything at all. They still never see the light of day, instead being tucked away under matresses.

Such is the problem with all metals, past a certain point it does not encourage spending - people just hoard it.