CuproNickel Endgame

[Morsecode]

Question: how easily do copper and nickel separate? Not by me, but in the hands of real smelters.

Does the difficulty (or ease) factor greatly in the final scrap price?

Something someone at the scrapyard said the other day got me wondering.

[scyther]

The most common response I've heard to this is that it would probably not be separated, since the 25/75 nickel/copper alloy is quite useful. But it would still probably be worth more if it can be easily separated... the more potential uses the better.

[Morsecode]

That's my question though...can CuNi be refined to .999 Ni.

Since there are fewer industrial uses for CuNi than for pure nickel, it factors into my strategy.

In other words, you can't add CuNi to make stainless steel...right?

[scyther]

That's my question though...can CuNi be refined to .999 Ni.

Since there are fewer industrial uses for CuNi than for pure nickel, it factors into my strategy.

In other words, you can't add CuNi to make stainless steel...right?

I wouldn't know for sure about stainless steel, but in the recipes I've seen, I recall seeing nickel, but not copper. So probably not, for most types. As for refining to .999, I assume it's possible. I can't see why it wouldn't be. It's just a matter of cost.

[Engineer]

That's my question though...can CuNi be refined to .999 Ni.

Since there are fewer industrial uses for CuNi than for pure nickel, it factors into my strategy.

In other words, you can't add CuNi to make stainless steel...right?

There's plenty of industrial uses for CuNi.

http://www.mastersourceco.com/products/C70600.html

[John_doe]

That's my question though...can CuNi be refined to .999 Ni.

Since there are fewer industrial uses for CuNi than for pure nickel, it factors into my strategy.

In other words, you can't add CuNi to make stainless steel...right?

I have heard it can be refined, but it is pricey. you may run into the law of diminishing return. CuNi is used tons in industrial application though so you may just keep it the way it is.


Edit: did not read above post.

[Morsecode]

Yeah, I'm just trying to close in on exactly what it is we're hoarding.

I know for myself I've looked at Coinflation values for the copper and nickel in, for example, $100 bricks, and how they mistakenly combine the two values to come up with a melt value...which is clearly wrong. A Jefferson nickel is neither nickel or copper. Cupronickel is it's own animal, with it's own scrap price depending on the blend. There's 90/10, 80/20, 70/30...maybe others (besides the 5¢ 75/25). Finding those scrap values isn't easy. I haven't found any current quotes for cupronickel.

And then there's the .999 Canada stuff, which speaks for itself. I'm beginning to appreciate the near 40% premium to spot these nickels trade at. I've been lucky to pick some up for less, but not as much as I'd like.

So, what would you buy with $1000...

A) $1000 face alloy Jeffs from the bank

B) $500 face pure CA

[wheeler_dealer]

C.
$1000.00 in junk 90% at as close to spot as possible.

I have been sorting and dumping nickel to convert to silver or other tangible.

[Morsecode]

Let me guess...you're in Canada? I might do the same if I were able to sort free .999

[SilverDragon72]

Yeah, I'm just trying to close in on exactly what it is we're hoarding.

I know for myself I've looked at Coinflation values for the copper and nickel in, for example, $100 bricks, and how they mistakenly combine the two values to come up with a melt value...which is clearly wrong. A Jefferson nickel is neither nickel or copper. Cupronickel is it's own animal, with it's own scrap price depending on the blend. There's 90/10, 80/20, 70/30...maybe others (besides the 5¢ 75/25). Finding those scrap values isn't easy. I haven't found any current quotes for cupronickel.

And then there's the .999 Canada stuff, which speaks for itself. I'm beginning to appreciate the near 40% premium to spot these nickels trade at. I've been lucky to pick some up for less, but not as much as I'd like.

So, what would you buy with $1000...

A) $1000 face alloy Jeffs from the bank

B) $500 face pure CA

I would take 500 FV in .999 Canadian Ni any day.

[johnbrickner]

Ditto what Silverdragon72 says: I'll take the $500 CA pure as I need it to round out my stacks.

[mtalbot_ca]

Ditto what Silverdragon72 says: I'll take the $500 CA pure as I need it to round out my stacks.

I am telling you, those .999 are getting harder to find.

I am at 340,000 sorted with an average of 11.3% and dropping.

I am giving myself a max of three years before the % drops below 5%.

Cheers,

[SilverDragon72]

Yep. I have a small stash of Canadian Nickels. They are harder to find. I grab whatever quantity my LCS has when I visit.

[Morsecode]

My stack of .999 is growing, thanks to recent buys.

Funny...with all the Canadian magnet money I take, nickels are the least found. But of those the majority are pre-'82.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Yeah, I'm just trying to close in on exactly what it is we're hoarding.

I know for myself I've looked at Coinflation values for the copper and nickel in, for example, $100 bricks, and how they mistakenly combine the two values to come up with a melt value...which is clearly wrong. A Jefferson nickel is neither nickel or copper. Cupronickel is it's own animal, with it's own scrap price depending on the blend. There's 90/10, 80/20, 70/30...maybe others (besides the 5¢ 75/25). Finding those scrap values isn't easy. I haven't found any current quotes for cupronickel.

Most intelligent comment on USA 5 cent pieces I have read here at Realcent. (No offense meant to anyone else.~ just sayin' . )

[SilverDragon72]

Yeah, I'm just trying to close in on exactly what it is we're hoarding.

I know for myself I've looked at Coinflation values for the copper and nickel in, for example, $100 bricks, and how they mistakenly combine the two values to come up with a melt value...which is clearly wrong. A Jefferson nickel is neither nickel or copper. Cupronickel is it's own animal, with it's own scrap price depending on the blend. There's 90/10, 80/20, 70/30...maybe others (besides the 5¢ 75/25). Finding those scrap values isn't easy. I haven't found any current quotes for cupronickel.

Most intelligent comment on USA 5 cent pieces I have read here at Realcent. (No offense meant to anyone else.~ just sayin' . )

Yes it is a different animal. It makes sense.

[scyther]

I don't think it's "clearly wrong". I don't think they're claiming that the actual price for cupro-nickel is the same as copper+nickel. But they can't find a price for that cupronickel alloy, so they tell you what the metals are worth separately. A 40% silver half, a 90% silver half, and a 35% silver war nickel are all different alloys, and for war nickels especially, simply taking the amount of silver in it won't necessarily tell you what you can actually sell it for. But is it wrong to tell people what the value of the silver in it is?

[John_doe]

Yeah, I'm just trying to close in on exactly what it is we're hoarding.

I know for myself I've looked at Coinflation values for the copper and nickel in, for example, $100 bricks, and how they mistakenly combine the two values to come up with a melt value...which is clearly wrong. A Jefferson nickel is neither nickel or copper. Cupronickel is it's own animal, with it's own scrap price depending on the blend. There's 90/10, 80/20, 70/30...maybe others (besides the 5¢ 75/25). Finding those scrap values isn't easy. I haven't found any current quotes for cupronickel.

Most intelligent comment on USA 5 cent pieces I have read here at Realcent. (No offense meant to anyone else.~ just sayin' . )

I agree with this, but it is fun to see still. I wish we had and accurate cupro spot.

[cupronickel]

I think the price of the 75/25 cupronickel would have to be higher than the price of the copper + the price of the nickel. Unless it is found in nature this way, I always assumed they took copper and nickel and combined them.

[scyther]

I think the price of the 75/25 cupronickel would have to be higher than the price of the copper + the price of the nickel. Unless it is found in nature this way, I always assumed they took copper and nickel and combined them.

But that wouldn't be hard to do. It's probably harder to separate them than combine them.

[fansubs_ca]

I think the price of the 75/25 cupronickel would have to be higher than the price of the copper + the price of the nickel. Unless it is found in nature this way, I always assumed they took copper and nickel and combined them.

I would also think that would be the "normal" situation. However since there is a cost
(which we on this board don't really know) to separate it back out it's quite possible
for the alloy to trade at a discount to it's components temporarily if there is a period
of oversupply until that extra inventory gets used up. That's just a matter of being
able to afford to wait out the glut though.

[reddirtcoins]

Me.. I'm after war nickels. I don't stack normal US nickels other than the pre 60's since that is only a few boxes a year. My guess is that one day when they change the nickel the pre 60's will get more bang for the buck. When they do change the nickel I'll try and grab a box or two of the last year. As far south as I am I only get a few rolls a year of the .999 and at the prices they are going for they are really out of my price range 99% of the time. I just don't understand the premium over spot for those.

[Morsecode]

As far south as I am I only get a few rolls a year of the .999 and at the prices they are going for they are really out of my price range 99% of the time. I just don't understand the premium over spot for those.

Market reality is beginning to chip away at that premium.

Remember how (most) everyone sorting cents drew a line in the sand at 2 x face? On the other hand, Lincoln sorting is a breeze compared to .999 for obvious reasons, so parting with it at a deep discount is harder to do.

[ZenOps]

The premium on .999 nicks is definitely getting up there. Canada has 1/10th the population of the US.

I get about 1% US nickels in Canada, but in the US you'd be lucky to find 0.1% of any type of Canadians (unless you hug the border, or are in Florida) in the US just by the numbers.

1.85 Billion were produced, several were melted in WWII, Korean war, and starting 2003 as a final ARP melt. What is even more shocking is the absence of pre-1999 dimes and quarters. The last time I went for a box of cdn dimes, it was all 2000 and later (no pure nickel metal dimes, nevermind silver dimes)

[Morsecode]

Actually, I pulled more nickels from the magnets today than usual. 22 total

2 - 1953
4 - KG6
4 - post '82
12 - '55 to '81

There's a lot of Canadian coin coming through Connecticut