Learn & Earn - PM scrapping at Yard Sales, Flea Markets, etc

[Market Harmony]

Here's your chance to talk about making money from your knowledge in precious metals. Base metal scrapping is similar, but not the subject of this thread.

Let's face it, there a lot of people who know little, if anything at all, about the value of precious metals, or what things might contain precious metals. They will undervalue their items if they are selling them, or might even just throw them away. This is your chance to make money. You need to be prepared to capitalize on these opportunities. So, let's talk about how to do that:

PLACES TO FIND PRECIOUS METAL SCRAP:
Auctions
Flea Markets
The Internet (eBay, Craigslist, forums, etc)
Yard Sales
Your neighbors and friends

EQUIPMENT:
Calculator
Scale
Testing kit
Flashlight
Magnification (jewelers loupe)
Neodymium Magnet

INFORMATION:

Know what you can sell something for before you buy it!
Find a refinery. There are others out there, but you can use my company as a base against your own comparison of the others. Take a look at my website: http://marketharmony.net Reliable and dependable refineries will post their refining rates clearly and let you know of any additional costs or tiered payout structures. By knowing what a refinery will pay, you can do the math and work backwards to figure out what you can then pay someone for their goods. It is best to use a pricing model that is a multiple of spot price to determine the maximum price that you will pay. So if you know what spot is, then you know what you will pay per gram or troy ounce of 18K, 14K, 10K, sterling, US coin, and anything else. Write this down or make an Excel spreadsheet so that you only enter in the spot price and all the information is automatically calculated.

Be able to identify what you are buying!
Verification of authenticity will save you from losing money on a bad item, or help you to realize a huge gain from what others can't identify. Don't be bashful about weighing things, but ask before you test something. Don't take other people's word. Even professional sellers will make mistakes or worse, misrepresent something. If you cannot verify it, then you are gambling with your money if you should choose to buy it. If it sticks to a magnet, then it's no good.

Plan your activities!
Research when and where yard sales and auctions will take place. Newspapers, websites like http://www.auctionzip.com, local free papers in the gas station (in PA we have the Greensheets and HorseTrader) will advertise events like auctions, yard sales, and flea markets. Mark down the dates on a calendar and keep yourself ready. Pre-plan auctions by reviewing the list of items and examine them when you get to the location. Go early!!! Do not rush yourself into making bad decisions because you were late or too many people were there and either bought it before you or hindered your examination.
And finally, plan when you are going to sell. Will it be a weekly shipment to the refinery, monthly, yearly? Are you going to speculate on the price of PM's or are you going to keep your cash flowing? Make a plan and stick to it. THOSE WHO FAIL TO PLAN, PLAN TO FAIL.

Stay capitalized!
Be ready to spend money. Go to the events with cash in your pocket. Not everyone will accept checks. Not everyone will want to break up a lot because you did not bring enough cash. Sometimes the best bargain is the most expensive item there. If you did your homework and know what it is worth, then you should be confident in your purchase. Don't be afraid to spend. And don't be afraid to bargain. Ask for a lower price, but never let a deal walk away. Cash deals will occasionally garner discounts

Network!
Make a business card and give it to people that might be able to find things for you, other buyers, and especially to people that you buy from. On it, you should list some of the things that you will buy. Advertise in the paper or on Craigslist that you buy. Do not brag, ever. No matter how well you did, tell people that you don't make much or that you do this for the enjoyment. You will build a reputation over time and you want it to be good. People would rather deal with someone that they like, and you only get one shot at life.

Stay safe!
Be discreet in your dealings. If you are meeting with someone, then do it in a public place. Store your items in a safe place. Securely ship your items. If you carry a firearm, be sure that you are familiar with all of the safety features and that you practice safe handling at all times. Nothing is worth your life. If you don't feel comfortable, then just walk away from the deal. More will come.


If I missed something (I usually do) then feel free to add your own information. If you have questions, feel free to post them here. If you need help on the pricing, then all you have to do is call me and say, "what are you paying today for X" It is THAT easy and quick. 412-468-4653

And finally, let's hear some war stories... Tell us about a great adventure or a bad deal, or a real jerk, or the nicest seller on Earth. We will all learn the most from the stories we tell. I've got some that I'll post at a later time, but I want to hear about some others, first. So, thanks for reading this far and now get typing!

[Corsair]

What kinds of testing kits do you use? Where could I pick one up?

[Market Harmony]

What kinds of testing kits do you use? Where could I pick one up?

Good question. For gold, I have had good success using the tri-electronics products. But there are also acid tests that you can use. For silver, there is an acid testing solution call Schwerters solution (you can buy both of these acid testing kits on eBay, or I have used http://contenti.com for these supplies)

I found this link with a quick Google search: http://www.geo.utexas.edu/courses/347k/redesign/gem_notes/metals/metals_main.htm

Also, I made this video about 2 months ago:

[mj74]

I am new scrap gold,and other precious metal. I know that most jewelry that is real is marked with how many carats it is,but
I was wondering if it possible for a piece of jewelry that is "real" to not be marked?

[bman]

MH, you might want to add a jeweler's loupe to your list of tools.

[TheJonasCollegeFund]

For brass and copper...what is the best way to determine? I've found a few pieces of "what the heck is this?" with my metal detector...at least the color is right and it's not magnetic. Also, a tip for stainless steel...I know the higher grades are not magnetic?

Another tool...a very,very strong magnet.

[Market Harmony]

For brass and copper...what is the best way to determine? I've found a few pieces of "what the heck is this?" with my metal detector...at least the color is right and it's not magnetic. Also, a tip for stainless steel...I know the higher grades are not magnetic?

Another tool...a very,very strong magnet.

A magnet is a must have... thanks for reminding me. But this is about precious metals (PM scrapping)... maybe one day, but for now copper is still a base metal

[Market Harmony]

MH, you might want to add a jeweler's loupe to your list of tools.

Done. Thanks. I knew there were things I was forgetting... I should have looked in my bag before I posted.

[Market Harmony]

...I was wondering if it possible for a piece of jewelry that is "real" to not be marked?

OK, here's the first short story:

A regular client of mine goes to just about every auction in the area which advertises jewelry. She typically buys there and then resells at flea markets. But when she has things that won't sell, are broken, or she just bought for a quick profit, then she gives me a call. She's been doing this for a long time and she actually tests things by just holding them in her hand and feeling it. Believe it or not, she's that good. Her "testing kit and scale" is her fingers, and they are well calibrated. She is also a wealth of knowledge when it comes to PM scrapping. Because of this, she can identify things with odd makers marks or no makers marks at all. And she got lucky one day at an auction... An unmarked necklace was in a junk bin of costume jewelry. She knew it was gold. She identified it as Israeli, about 10 grams, and probably 18K. She bought the whole box for $20.

The result of her buy was that I paid her in the neighborhood of $350 for the necklace and she also made money on the other things she bought there, too. Sterling silverware is another favorite of hers. She's been doing this for so long but still gets a rush when she makes a big score like that.

So, yes, items can be gold but not marked as such. But the corollary is also true. Items can be marked gold and not gold at all. This is why a test kit is so essential.

[Market Harmony]

Ok, so who has found an auction, estate sale, or found an add where they plan to buy some PM's? It's not that hard.

[Verbane]

Be able to identify what you are buying!
Verification of authenticity will save you from losing money on a bad item, or help you to realize a huge gain from what others can't identify.

Spent my lunch hour in the typical fashion, walking through one of the local antique/consignment/thrift stores within walking distance of the office. Picked up a weighted candle stick in a consignment shop with no price attached. Lady at the counter looks at it and says to me, "It's not silver, doesn't say 925, how about two dollars?"

What she didn't know, is silver hallmarks. German Creseant and Crown, .800 fine silver. I am by no means an expert on hallmarks, but I know enough of the basics to pull off some great deals.

For the size of the candlestick, after the weighting is removed, I should end up with about 0.8 to 0.9 tOZ ASW for Two bucks! And its only Monday!!

[Dr. Cadmium]

Another must for the PM scrapper's tool kit: your business license, sales and use tax form or other paperwork your state requires you to have.

Laws vary greatly by state, so check with your state tax agency and local law enforcement. Some require a special license for buying precious metals and have other requirements. With so many states desperate for funds right now, legislators and revenue departments are coming up with creative fines for tax violations and governments are being more aggressive enforcing existing laws.

Also, in case your vehicle or person is searched by law enforcement it's good to have official documents to indicate what you do with your small scales and chemistry set. You don't want to be mistaken for a drug dealer.

[Thogey]

Another must for the PM scrapper's tool kit: your business license, sales and use tax form or other paperwork your state requires you to have.

Laws vary greatly by state, so check with your state tax agency and local law enforcement. Some require a special license for buying precious metals and have other requirements. With so many states desperate for funds right now, legislators and revenue departments are coming up with creative fines for tax violations and governments are being more aggressive enforcing existing laws.

Also, in case your vehicle or person is searched by law enforcement it's good to have official documents to indicate what you do with your small scales and chemistry set. You don't want to be mistaken for a drug dealer.

What the hell is this?

Are things that bad where you are?

[.02FYI]

Some states . Like california are banning, talking about banning and concerned about no licenesed buyers of gold. So possibly the Dr. was concerned that this might be the scenario. You could also have a coin book, coin magazine, the box the chemicals come in vehicle . This would show the hobby aspect and your buying to stimulate the economy etc... With a silver coin and other misc in kit. If you explain properly it shouldn't be a prob in most area's I would suspect.

[Market Harmony]

You certainly need to be aware of any local laws, but I think that the interpretation of codes is being stretched in some cases. If you set up at shows, have a business, or are otherwise a commercial entity dealing with the public on a regular basis, then those laws and codes may apply to you.

However, nobody is going say a thing to you for buying some junky silverware or gold jewelry at a flea market, auction, yard sales, etc. Don't blow this stuff out of proportion. Me, yes, I need to be licensed. I need to follow the Patriot Act. I need to keep a running PL. You, as an individual, sending scrap away to be refined, should not need this stuff. Start to go over $50K a year, and the gov't might get curious.

I'm no lawyer, and this is not advice. Keep being scared of big brother and you'll stay under his thumb for life.

Now quit all this talk about forms and codes and laws and START TALKING ABOUT YOUR SCRAP FINDS.

Somebody tell us a story

[prohobo]

Edit: My bad, just trying to get the story ball rolling.

[Market Harmony]

OMG.... what's with the reading comprehension these days?

[Rodebaugh]

OMG.... what's with the reading comprehension these days?

Yeah, I picked up an aluminum grill and a microwave yesterday for free.

Thanks Market Harmony for the write up. It helped having that magnet to tell the grill was aluminum.

[Dr. Cadmium]

What the hell is this?

Are things that bad where you are?

Yes, and they're probably going to get worse before they get better. Such is the way of things when there are budget deficits and legislators are convinced that social progress and their legacies are dependent solely on the number of laws they can put on the books.

Here in CT many people have been nailed at flea markets and swap meets right on the spot for running illegal businesses.

Typically the way it works is a plainclothes government employee will engage a conversation with you about how you get all of your wares, how long you've been in business, swap a few stories, etc. Then mid conversation they'll pull out their credentials and ask to see your sales tax permit. If you don't have a license, you can be hit with a $600 fine on the spot. They speak softly and carry a huge stick!

And that's just for people selling antiques and collectibles. If you're caught openly buying precious metals with cash (state law requires a special license and payment by check for PMs) by a plainclothes cop there can be more severe consequences.

That said, the enforcement of such regulations are still minimal in most states. If you're just picking up $20 of junk silver at a time at tag sales then it's not a big deal. I only brought it up because I felt it was worth including in a "how to" guide.

[Rodebaugh]

So I go to a local antique store on occasion during lunch that is run by a retired coal miner (and current UK B-Ball fan). He, by the way, knows glass better than McDonalds knows cheeseburgers. Anyways, I have gotten a few good deals there on occasion and enjoy the camaraderie and things he teaches me about glass and sharing any coin info I can.

Long story short, he sold me a “Sterling” Nixon Coin in a display box for $20. (Buying that Nixon coin was hard on me…….Very Hard). The coin is about the size of a Morgan.

-He said he had never removed it from its protective holder.
-I explained that I wanted to check for sure that the coin was marked somewhere.
-He said do what you want to.
-I gently removed the coin from the box to read the rim’s edge. “.999 fine silver” I said, looks to be pure silver Tom….not sterling….is the price still good at $20?
-Of course Doc.
-So I said,” I’ll take it” as I switched holding it by the rim with my left hand to putting a greasy thumb print on Nixon’s face with my right. Ahhh, I felt better right away by removing any numismatic value someone may try to claim on such a retched token as I slid it into my pocket saying with a wink….keep the Box Tom.
-He laughed and said,….Your going to melt Nixon…. aren’t you?
-Yes Sir I am. If it was Clinton I would keep it.(truthful chuckle)
-Doc, If it was Clinton I would have give it to you to get it out of the shop.


The .999 coin was purchased for $20, and it weighs 35grams.
Cost per ounce….. $17.76.
Having a good time at the antique store ….priceless.

[Dumpster Diver]

OMG.... what's with the reading comprehension these days?

Yeah, I picked up an aluminum grill and a microwave yesterday for free.

Thanks Market Harmony for the write up. It helped having that magnet to tell the grill was aluminum.

My favorite magnet can be had for $4 at Home Depot. It is a telescoping magnet about the size of a pen and fits in your pocket. It is "General" brand in a yellow and black carded package. Look in the specialty tools section in the tool corral.

[Cptindy]

Great Post Here!

Got me thinking about a guy I seen at the coin store last week. After he left I asked about him and was told, "All he does is go to sales and ask for broken jewelry, brings in 3-5k per week like clockwork."

The dealer pays out 85% of spot for what he brings in!

I think I am going to try this out, I love yard sales.

What is the polite way to ask to test someones jewelry?

Is it better to have the electronic or the chemical test kit?

Thanks again!!!

Edit: Ok I answered my own question based on your video, (should have been more thorough) the electronic seems like the way to go. Also checked your payout on the website, very nice!

[.02FYI]

Great Post Here!

Got me thinking about a guy I seen at the coin store last week. After he left I asked about him and was told, "All he does is go to sales and ask for broken jewelry, brings in 3-5k per week like clockwork."
The dealer pays out 85% of spot for what he brings in!
I think I am going to try this out, I love yard sales.
What is the polite way to ask to test someones jewelry?
Is it better to have the electronic or the chemical test kit?
Thanks again!!!
Edit: Ok I answered my own question based on your video, (should have been more thorough) the electronic seems like the way to go. Also checked your payout on the website, very nice!

Will scroll back to see video. So I'm not sure the answers you come up with. But at the same time. Buying and Selling or Buying and trading and asking questions, seeking information from those you respect and gathering facts form this site, thread. Could assist you in understanding your motives, plan action that fits your style. Good luck and defitely let us know how it works out for you.

[Rodebaugh]

Picked up two ASEs at lunch for $27 each. Not a fantastic deal but not bad either.

[Market Harmony]

I have a regular client that goes to estate sales ALL THE TIME. Here in PA, we love to shift things from one house to another.

She came through again (no surprise) Brought me a bunch of gold and doubled her money in 3 hours... not too shabby