A Comprehensive Examination of Counterfeit Silver Bullion

[natsb88]

I have been gathering and comparing fake silver bars, rounds, and 90% coins. These things aren't going to go away, and the best defense is simply to know what to look for.

A lot of people have been bugging me to post pictures. I'm nowhere near done yet, but I will start posting comparisons here as I get them done. I will also be adding photos, explanations, and possibly videos of things like acid tests and magnet tests.

If you are aware of other fakes that are not either pictured or listed below, please let me know. If you happen to have one I can borrow to do a comparison, even better

[natsb88]

Unless noted, all counterfeits in these comparisons are non-magnetic.

The visual differences noted in the comparisons are the easy things to look for when evaluating a piece, but it is not an exhaustive list; there are other minor differences that aren't noted in the info-graphics.

Thickness and weight will vary marginally from one piece to the next for both genuine and counterfeit pieces. The numbers shown represent the average of several measurements taken on each sample piece.

[natsb88]

Fakes In Hand - Comparisons Coming Soon
Mercury Dime 90%
Washington Quarter 90%
Walking Liberty Half 90%
Morgan Dollar 90%
Peace Dollar 90%

Known Fakes - None in Hand to Compare (yet)
APMEX 1 Ozt Bar
Morgan Design 1 Ozt Bar
American Flag Design 1 Ozt Bar
Northwest Territorial Mint 1 Ozt Bar
Canadian Maple Leaf 1 Ozt Coin
Scottsdale Lion 1 Ozt Bar
Scottsdale Niue Island 1 Ozt Bar
Scottsdale Lion 1 Ozt Round
Johnson-Matthey 1 Ozt Bar
Engelhard 1 Ozt Bar
Engelhard 10 Ozt Bar
Pamp Lunar Dragon 1 Ozt Bar
APMEX (?) Lunar Snake 1 Ozt Bar

[natsb88]

placeholder

[OneBiteAtATime]

Nice work, Nate!!!! Looking forward to these, thanks man!

[natsb88]

More comparisons added.

[reddirtcoins]

Thanks for the work

[Country]

Excellent!

[TXBullion]

Very nice work. Was going to say good thing you tagged them at the bottom as i see these being a popular item!

[Thogey]

Good work Nate!

Question: What does this mean?

"Reverse orientation of counterfeit is opposite that of a genuine ASE"

Does the counterfeit have medal alignment?

[Engineer]

I took it to mean ↑↑ rather than ↑↓

[natsb88]

I have three new groups of fakes coming in to document. The first one arrived today, here's a preview...



I will need to borrow genuine examples to do comparisons on some of these, I'll get a list posted soon.

Also thinking about a more controlled way to share these comparisons so the makers don't use them to improve their products.

[natsb88]

Annnnnnd a few more...



And another group still in the air.

To those who have offered to loan genuine samples, I am still working on a list of what I have and what I need. The last group of fakes (for now) should be here in the next few days.

[natsb88]

And the last group (for now). The Chinese ship faster than most legit US dealers

[coppernickel]

Holy cow, thank you for the heads up. Boy I am behind the curve.

[johnbrickner]

From your comparison photos, lists of "in hand" and "known" fakes, and actual pictures of counterfeits obtained has left me in awe of the sheer spectrum out there. Thank you Nate. I greatly appreciate you're making me aware. You do us a great service.

[beauanderos]

actual pictures of counterfeits of the sheer spectrum out there.

The Chinese for years have been covertly siphoning the World's gold into their coffer's in exchange for worthless fiat. Now, they are doing the same, in a more surreptious nepharious manner, amassing a hoard of the World's real silver by systematically duping the naive with counterfeits. You can rest assured that they are stashing as much genuine silver as fast as they can. You can't build solar panels with 100 mil thick silver-plated brass core bars, no matter
how nice they look

thanks, Nate.

they ship faster because they have plenty in stock!

[68Camaro]

For the newbie, unless buying directly from a source or from someone providing verifier assurance, this makes acquisition of the verifier one of your top priorities.

[beauanderos]

just went on ebay to check out the Pan American silver bars listed there. Looking at the example Nate provided makes it simple to detect the fakes.

MOST of the listings (well, ok, a majority of) on ebay are for counterfeits, even by the seller's with near 100% feedback!!!

buyer's beware! You probably shouldn't be buying anything any longer in precious metals from ebay sellers.

[68Camaro]

Well let's qualify that to sellers that aren't themselves producers or agents for producers.

[natsb88]

I haven't updated this thread lately because I am working on an entire website on the subject. I am in the process of forming a separate business entity for it and I'm still developing the website and cataloging content. Hoped to have it up and running a couple months ago but I can't seem to shake the ~75 hour work weeks

[natsb88]

Here are some recent acquisitions.





I have a great resource in the works. Hang tight...

[brian0918]

just went on ebay to check out the Pan American silver bars listed there. Looking at the example Nate provided makes it simple to detect the fakes.

If you find any fake Pan Americans on ebay, click on Report Item, then report it as counterfeit. You can paste in this description, which links to his comparison graphic:

This is a clear fake. The corners are sharper than the real version: http://bit.ly/1q6T2D5

You have to shorten the URL to fit it in their message box.

[wolvesdad]

Wow, didnt realize their variety had grown so!! Glad i havent been buying on ebay for a couple years.
Wonder what ill find when i check/ verify my hoard!?

How many coin shops are getting duped by ebayers that got duped?

That mixed silver tray doesnt look as appealing right now. Ouch

[natsb88]

Stay vigilant. Here's a small sample of new stuff from the last couple months, including some improved one ounce bars.



There are now fake Pamp gold and silver bars with updated assay cards that are clear around the bar instead of white like the first round of fakes. There are also several sizes of Perth gold bars being faked.

By the end of the first quarter of 2015 I should finally be able to launch the resource I have been working on for over a year to help educate and identify this stuff. Stay tuned...