Is America ready for a brown nickel?

[camtender]

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/15/ ... ?iid=HP_LN

Since 2011, Mint officials in this lab have been looking into alternative metals for coins that could bring down the agency's growing production costs. After spending $8.1 million on research, scientists discovered six potential metal alloys for pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters that could save the government between $30 and $40 million a year. The copper-plated zinc option for nickels that I have in my hand is just one of them. (Researchers here refer to it as the "nonsense nickel.")

[reddirtcoins]

Wow.. So it really sounds like come December they will opt for 2 more years of research.

[johnbrickner]

From the above:

"but by what the American people and vending machine industry will most readily accept."

Read "by what we get the American people and vending machine industry to most readily accept".

"I give the American public a lot of credit," Peterson said. "If we gave them a proper public relations campaign about what we are going to do and why we are going to do it, people will get on board and support the program."

Read "the American public are idiots, if we gave them a proper brain washing through the media avaliable, people will get on board and believe anything we tell them about the program".

[scyther]

I really don't see why they need people to "get on board". Just do it. People aren't going to stop using nickels...

[slickeast]

$8.1 million and climbing for the research. Then the vending industry will get government funding to cover the cost to update their machines. Estimated 3.5 BILLION.

Basically the government will spend 4 BILLION to save 20 million a year. Sounds about right

[plus1hdcp]

$8.1 million and climbing for the research. Then the vending industry will get government funding to cover the cost to update their machines. Estimated 3.5 BILLION.

Basically the government will spend 4 BILLION to save 20 million a year. Sounds about right

Agreed

[ZenOps]

Machines that accept zinc pennies should already be 90% of the way to accepting zinc cored nickels. It doesn't cost that much, and if it does - the vendor can always decide to simply round to the nearest dime (in the case of high value items like cigarettes)

The choice for Canada to go with iron cored was easy, we already had magnetic coinage from 1922 (the pure nickel) The US has never had magnetic coinage. All of our coin machines are calibrated to accept magnetic coinage. Which is suprisingly also an easy fix for the US, as you only have to copy the Canadian designs for coin acceptance if you should decide to go iron cored. All 300 million people in the Euro also use coin machines that accept iron and magnetic coinage.

[johnbrickner]

I really don't see why they need people to "get on board". Just do it. People aren't going to stop using nickels...

Simply put: if the people determine the new coin(s) are cheap, of less value and the reason this is being done is because the government devalued your hard earned "money," then the value of the U$ dollar may be perceived by the people as being cheap, of less value and the reason this whole thing is being done is because the government devalued your hard earned "money". Then the people just might decide to do something about it and the whole facade could come crashing down. The government can't have that.

Unlikely to happen but, better to brain wash them first into buying in and then going along with it. Once the first generation accepts it the following generations will accept almost blindly, save for a few aware individuals who do not make up enough of a critical mass to do something about it nor are likely to regardless.

[ZenOps]

Its definitely holding the US dollar up. I have more respect for the US dollar because it still underlyingly has cupronickel nickels.

Even though technically, there is only $8 worth per person. Just like pre-1933, I'm pretty sure people respected the $20 gold double eagles, although arguably - there was no more than $40 worth per person at the time (two ounces of gold) And ditto pre-64 where there was 10 ounces of silver per person in coin form.

I lost respect for the Canadian loonie when forced to no longer use 7 grams of nickel to represent a dollar (Forced Austerity, to return to profitability)

Its why I think the US made 7 billion pennies last year. Its a "wealth effect" if you have some weight to the pocket. The US appears to have no intention to return to profitability ever in vast areas of commerce, including coin mintage.

IE: The US $1 coins with $0.06 worth of copper in them, are significantly more valuable than Canadian iron cored Loonies or Toonies made in 2013

[68Camaro]

Even the zinc cents have >50% intrinsic metal value. 7 billion of them are worth >$35M.

[theo]

I really don't see why they need people to "get on board". Just do it. People aren't going to stop using nickels...

Simply put: if the people determine the new coin(s) are cheap, of less value and the reason this is being done is because the government devalued your hard earned "money," then the value of the U$ dollar may be perceived by the people as being cheap, of less value and the reason this whole thing is being done is because the government devalued your hard earned "money". Then the people just might decide to do something about it and the whole facade could come crashing down. The government can't have that.

Unlikely to happen but, better to brain wash them first into buying in and then going along with it. Once the first generation accepts it the following generations will accept almost blindly, save for a few aware individuals who do not make up enough of a critical mass to do something about it nor are likely to regardless.

We already know what their playbook is for changing the composition of a coin. We saw it 1965 and again in 1982. Decrease the intrinsic value of the coin while maintaining (or even slightly improving) its general appearance, ("Look how shiny the new coin is!"). The same will be done with the nickel, likely by using a variation of the Canadian nickel's composition. This was probably decided several years ago. This rest is (as johnbrickner suggested) likely smoke and mirrors to bore and distract the general population while gradually getting them to accept the idea of a change.

[Morsecode]

I really don't see why they need people to "get on board". Just do it. People aren't going to stop using nickels...

Simply put: if the people determine the new coin(s) are cheap, of less value and the reason this is being done is because the government devalued your hard earned "money," then the value of the U$ dollar may be perceived by the people as being cheap, of less value and the reason this whole thing is being done is because the government devalued your hard earned "money". Then the people just might decide to do something about it and the whole facade could come crashing down. The government can't have that.

Unlikely to happen but, better to brain wash them first into buying in and then going along with it. Once the first generation accepts it the following generations will accept almost blindly, save for a few aware individuals who do not make up enough of a critical mass to do something about it nor are likely to regardless.

We already know what their playbook is for changing the composition of a coin. We saw it 1965 and again in 1982. Decrease the intrinsic value of the coin while maintaining (or even slightly improving) its general appearance, ("Look how shiny the new coin is!"). The same will be done with the nickel, likely by using a variation of the Canadian nickel's composition. This was probably decided several years ago. This rest is (as johnbrickner suggested) likely smoke and mirrors to bore and distract the general population while gradually getting them to accept the idea of a change.

Right on. Shiny is all you need here. That, and maybe some politically correct new design. And the kids don't need even that...they don't use money anymore.

[cooyon]

If our "money" is backed by our full faith in the govt, then brown is certainly the appropriate color...just sayin'.

[ZenOps]

The US debased 5-cent piece need not look brown.

The modern Canadian 5-cent piece is iron cored, with a copper coating, with a nickel coating on top of the copper coating. You can actually wear down the outer layer and you will see the copper.

They made it this way because they determined that the nickel metal adheres much better to copper and is much more durable that way, instead of a direct plating on iron.

[TwoPenniesEarned]

Iron coin. LOL!

Future generations will be looking on us as a long running repeat of societies that debased and abased themselves to nothing. Just as Caligula was appointing his horse to the Consul, he also began to dabble in debasing the coins. A mere two decades later, 15-20% value of the denarius was gone, and the entirety of Roman society had gone to the dogs. Quite literally, Nero was throwing Christians to the dogs!

What is so troubling to me is many horses we have in our Senates today! That and we have abased our morality once again nearly to the point of human sacrifice. But I'd say we are only at the "horse" stage now. We've got another two decades to slide before everyone starts to realize on masse that something has gone wrong. Right now the bread (food stamps) and circuses (NHL/NFL/Olympics) are sufficient to confuse and befuddle the majority of us into not realizing that 15-20% of our own spending power has disappeared since the horse appointments began in earnest (2008).

[johnbrickner]

And well said, twopennies.

If our "money" is backed by our full faith in the govt, then brown is certainly the appropriate color...just sayin'.

No argument from me on the appropriate color but our "money" is backed by the full faith and ability of our government to debase the money to postpone the tax and collecting from us to pay it back. It will continue until we no longer allow it and that isn't happening yet.

From the conditions of our society sprang certain streams of opinion and desires. The govt. acted on these opinions and desires and we readily accepted or surrendered to the acts with little resistance even though we may have not have approved or even understood them. Our statesmen turned to debt as the device for creating purchsing poower. No one approved of it in principle either. But few of us protested because the majority of us demanded the fruits it brought. An additional factor was the ever-growing addiction of our social-welfare measures to mitigate the deprivations of the indigent, unemployed, sick and aged. Debt and spend became the standard tools of our leaders. It was this need for spending that opened the door for the special interests most desirous of militarism and it's handmaiden, imperialism. We became an empire and because we didn't recognize it and stop the cycle of increased debt and spend we became an empire in decline. Recently, we received our first margin call from hell. What we are experiencing now is the result of that margin call. The only problem with it isn't our current decreased standard of living but, how many more generations will get the margin calls before it is all paid back?

Taken and adapted from: Flynn, J., As We Go Marching, Ayer Company, 1972. Regarding circa 1923 Italy under Moussolini.

Also from Flynn above, "Spending had become a settled part of the policy of fascism to create national income, except that the fascist state spent on a a scale unimaginable to the old premiers." All I can say is "a scale unimaginable"? Flynn should write a book on the fascist united states.

[coppernickel]

$8.1 million and climbing for the research. Then the vending industry will get government funding to cover the cost to update their machines. Estimated 3.5 BILLION.

Basically the government will spend 4 BILLION to save 20 million a year. Sounds about right

Agreed

Normal government day. Second.

[Computer Jones]

About 10% of the Nicks I look at are Cu colorized already.
I think TPTB are planting seeds!

[johnbrickner]

About 10% of the Nicks I look at are Cu colorized already.
I think TPTB are planting seeds!

Interesting thought, CJ. I like the way you think.