Canadian melt bans on silver, nickel and copper coin.

[west77]

I have been reading the Canadian currency act and have found no repeal of melting silver. Now, obviously, people and business have done it, but have they had to ship Canadian currency out of the country? As far as I can tell, unless there is specific legislation somewhere relating to the melting of silver coin by a private entity, it would still be illegal as they would qualify as current because they were issued under the authority of the royal Canadian mint act, and therefore considered current coin (I can use a silver quarter at face value to pay a debt.)

7. (1) A coin is current for the amount of its denomination in the currency of Canada if it was issued under the authority of
(a) the Royal Canadian Mint Act; or
(b) the Crown in any province of Canada before it became part of Canada and if the coin was, immediately before October 15, 1952, current and legal tender in Canada.

And the only thing it prevents is melting current coin (note that a defaced Canadian coin is no longer considered current either.)
7. (2) (2) No coin that is bent, mutilated or defaced, or that has been reduced in weight otherwise than by abrasion through ordinary use, shall pass current.

11. (1) No person shall, except in accordance with a licence granted by the Minister, melt down, break up or use otherwise than as currency any coin that is current and legal tender in Canada.


The currency act is found here. http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/rsc-1985-c-c-52/latest/rsc-1985-c-c-52.html

The other couple of thoughts that I have, is that I should be able to melt any US copper coins all day long. They are not now, nor ever have been considered "current" in Canada. I also should be able to melt down any Canadian coins that I run across that are bent, cut, mutilated or defaced as they are no longer considered current coin. In theory, I should be able to import all of the American copper I want and turn it into a commodity (though I feel certain that in practice, this would result in bad things happening to me.)

Any thoughts, disagreements, additions?

[TwoPenniesEarned]

They are already in convenient trade-able form with known purity. If you melt them down they will trade for less. In time, they will trade at melt value just like old silver coins.

[JadeDragon]

You are partly correct. Sitting in Canada you can melt all the American copper pennies you want. No one in the Canadian Govt will ever care one bit (as long as you are not counterfitting coins of course). If you harvest US coins from Canadian circulation you would be perfectly fine.

Several problems though:

1. Hard to separate the US copper from the Canadian copper other than by sight.
2. Low quantity of US copper in the overall Canadian penny population
3. American law currently precludes exporting US pennies.

I don' know about melting Canadian Silver coins. I keep the ones I see.

[BrianFranchi]

Hey guys,

I hope this isn't against the rules, but I wanted to post on the forum because I am moving and need to get rid of some Canadian copper cents. Anyone in the Grand Island, NY/Buffalo, NY area can have these at face value if you want. I have 17 rolls of Canadian pre 1980 cents, 23 rolls of Canadian pre 1997 cents, $3.40 worth of American wheat pennies, and 49 King George cents. $44 in total. You can e-mail me at brian.franchi@yahoo.com.

[didou]

First canlii.org isn't a official government owned website, what's is written on it may or may not be legal or updated and have no value in court at all.

Get the real Currency Act here :
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/c-52/page-2.html

And as weird as it may sound, law isn't used in justice courts at all. Yeah you read it right. Jurisprudence is.

I'm not a lawyer but let's me try to explain it what i understand.

First a law is written, always very simple only a couple of pages long. And it always stay that short and simple. Then someone found a loophole in the laws and use it. He get caught, brought to a judge who interpret the laws. The judge decide if he's guilty or not. If he is found guilty and there is no appeal in superior court is made, a jurisprudence is created from the case. The jurisprudence is used in courts as valid as a law and define how the law should be interpreted. From now on all case that look similar to the one previously judged are judged the same way.

Let's see by a fictional example :

Someone decide to export a $1'000 FV of penny to the U.S. He's caught at the border and brought to a judge. The judge decide to interpret the laws and decide that the melting word in the laws should be interpreted as exporting coins with the intend of melting. The guys is found guilty, goes to jail. The case is know as (fictional number) #524563 and a jurisprudence is made from it. The jurisprudence is stack on the pile with the others and become a part of the laws. Everyone caught in the same condition from that case (exporting penny) will be judged the same way (goes to jail).

The facts is even if you know the law and the laws don't say it's illegal to export penny doesn't mean it's legal to do so.

You have to read all the jurisprudence previously made on that laws and found a bunch of them very similar to yours case and no jurisprudence against you to call it 'legal'. Even with that it can be disused, that why courts room exist and you can be found guilty and serve as a jurisprudence for others.

All these won't save yours ass if you don't know the natural justice principle and the charters of liberty that stand of top of everything, no laws or jurisprudence can say something that goes against them, if they do, they are illegal.

I don't know where to find the jurisprudence of the Currency Act, it may not even be online. Some laws (like employment insurance) in Canada have as a far as 150'000 jurisprudence, most of them aren't online yet. It can give you a serious headache trying to figure what's worth reading it and what's not.

As far as i know you can't melt any Canadian coins in Canada and i wouldn't try to export them unless you hired a lawyer. To my knowledge there is no law against melting any others currency such as the U.S. on Canadian ground. But as i said, i'm not myself a lawyer.

Will i admire you desire to defend yourself alone, your creativity and persistence to read the laws and try to find a way to make money, i believe you should contact a lawyer.

[BrianFranchi]

correction $24 for all

[fasTT]

Well, I just sent $2500 face value of nickels to another member here yesterday.

My driver was stopped at the border, explained exactly what he was doing (exporting Canadian coins) and was released. It is perfectly legal to export Canadian coins at this time.

It is NOT legal to melt Canadian coins in Canada though without a license. There are a few companies that can, including Handy Harman and others. You can melt any foreign coin in Canada without a license.

[misteroman]

brian I sent ya a PM I'll be happy to take it and will give ya a little extra for your time!