40% U.S. Silver vs. 80% Canadian silver?

[Recyclersteve]

I live in the U.S. and have a potential opportunity to trade 40% silver Kennedy halves straight up for an equal amount of 80% silver Canadian quarters. coininfo.com shows both to have roughly the same melt value. So what would everyone do, and do you think it matters that I live in the U.S.? One think I've heard is that when you have a low purity silver coin, it is much more difficult to get anywhere near melt for it... An example is war nickels (35% silver)- it would likely be difficult to get close to melt for those. Opinions anyone?

[beauanderos]

from having watched both items listed here, and how fast they sell... they both seem to sell at a slight discount to melt, but it seems like 40% sells slightly faster. 40% is readily available through roll searching... might be nice to have a little stack diversity with the Canadian quarters. Pretty much an even swap, might have a bit easier resale with the Kennedy's. Ask them for a five percent break on the swap, and if you can get it... go for it

[beauanderos]

I wouldn't do it if the Canadian's contain 1967 or 1968 (which they probably do). Some of those are 80%, some are 50%.

Too much trouble to tell the difference.

[theo]

Good point. Hopefully you can confirm that it is all pre-1967. Its my understanding that, with respect to 1967s, the Canadians split the difference and consider them 65% silver.

[Verbane]

While 40% halves do tend to sell at a slight discount to melt, 80% will typically sell at a greater discount to melt in the US. Unless you are near the Canadian border, and can cross over to sell, you will lose liquidity with a trade like this.

[Recyclersteve]

How do you tell the difference between 50% silver and 80% silver, since they both appear to weigh 5.83 grams per Wiki?

[CLINT-THE-GREAT]

How do you tell the difference between 50% silver and 80% silver, since they both appear to weigh 5.83 grams per Wiki?

1953 to 1967
Composition: 80%silver, 20% copper
Weight (g): 5.83
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): n/a

1967 to 1968
Composition: 50% silver, 50% copper
Weight (g): 5.83
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): n/a

1968 to 1977
Composition: 99.9% nickel
Weight (g): 5.05
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): 1.6


From all I have ever read, there is no "easy" way to determine the difference between 80/50%. I hear that alot of dealers just make the average 65% assuming that half is 80% and half is 50%. Some guys do say they can tell the difference in the "ring" of each quarter. Perhaps someone with more experience will chime in

-THe Great

[mtalbot_ca]

Hi there,

From the RCM website, it clearly states that the 1967-68 quarters (50%) weight in at 5.05g.

http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/learn/25- ... AWnIG90zmI

1967 - 1968
Composition : 50 % argent, 50 % cuivre
Poids (g) : 5,05
Diamètre (mm) : 23,88
Épaisseur (mm) : s/o

The same does not go for the dimes, the difference is too small.

In reality, from a statistical point of view about 70% of all 1967 dimes and quarters are 80%, as they apparently began production of the 50% around September of 1967 if I remember correctly. Can someone confirm?

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

[JadeDragon]

I would prefer the 80% Canadian - stores same silver in 1/2 the space.

I understand 35% war nicks are more discounted because the manganese is tough to extract.

[Gobirds66]

All this work trying to figure out if they are 50% or 80%..... Make it simple. Figure they are all 50% and this way you never get burned. Do the math based on 50% and if the other side does not like it, keep the 40% Halves. There is no doubt the 40% is 40% since they never split a year in the US Halves.

My reason is simple.... In the future, you never know what the trend will be and it would stink for you to be caught on the short end if the next guy decides he does not want to play the 65% game and only offers you a price based on 50%. And.....in a SHTF situation, the normal guy who does not know a difference will probably be looking to trade the water you NEED for your silver....at his price....which you know will be based on the 50%.

I understand the whole "fairness deal" but in my humble opinion, you should always negotiate and round to your benefit. Besides, I have seen a trend lately where US Halves are trading closer to melt (compared to quarters and dimes) which says to me there is more demand for the Half Dollar in the Coin Silver market. use that to negotiate yourself closer to the 50% vs. taking it at 65%

Just my thoughts.....

[Recyclersteve]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies!

[johnbrickner]

I own both and live in upstate NY. I've bought the 40% cheaper than the Canadian 80%. The border is just up the road or across the state just beyond Buffalo. I've got more 80% b/c of this proximity and I get twice as much silver in a smaller package. Often I'll get the older silver Canadian coins and I'm just dandy with any numismatic value added to a deal. But, I keep some 40% around just because.

[Recyclersteve]

Do you guys think a refinery well south of the Canadian border would melt down around $500 face of Canadian 80% or would they balk at that for some reason? Or would their fee be so ridiculous that it wouldn't be worth it?

[JadeDragon]

Refiners in Canada and the US will melt 80% silver coins - no issues that I know of. Ask MarketHarmony who I think melted some of my ugliest Canadian coins down.

[AdamsSamoa]

look up scrapman 1077....

[Engineer]

Do you guys think a refinery well south of the Canadian border would melt down around $500 face of Canadian 80% or would they balk at that for some reason? Or would their fee be so ridiculous that it wouldn't be worth it?

Its not illegal (unless they're a crown citizen), so theres no reason they wouldn't. You need to balance the economics of melting, though.

The lower the percentage of silver, the more it costs to refine, so they have to pay out less for 80% than 90% or sterling. Many would be happy to pay you 80% of spot, then flip the coins back into the market at 90%, so it's often best to sell the coins as-is.

[scrapman1077]

Yeah , send all your 40%, 80% whatever to me for some .999. Takes up the least amount of room in your stack.

[LooseChange]

You could have some of all 3 options if you want.

If you have $1000 FV now, you could swap say $500 FV, Keep $250 FV of each (US 40% and Can 80%) and Send the remaining $500 FV ($250 FV of each) to be melted. This would give you exposure to all 3 types mentioned in this thread.

I don't know the refining rates, what you've got in the coins or what your ultimate goals are for and what you want to keep around. So my default answer is some of all 3, especially if you come out ahead on the swap for the CAN 80%.....just MHO.