Trump

[wolvesdad]

Not sure if this is where this belongs, or should start a new thread:
What have you heard about the main points they bring up about Trump NOT DRAINING THE SWAMP ?

This is the young Turks. I don't like them. But if half their claims are straight legitimate facts, then Trump is, as I have been afraid, nearly or just as 'pay-to-play-dirty' as HC.
http://youtu.be/6A2arZllmqw

So this starts with Ivanka joining or being present in official political meetings, but it actually gets a lot worse very quickly!!

[Thogey]

Maybe the guys he's hiring are not the nazis you hang, but the ones who keep the trains running.

Also, it is doubtful the Trumps entered politics to make money. I don't see how Ivanka's clothing line business with the japanese has impact on anything or even matters. If she was over there selling troop movements or missile tech or the other kind of stuff HC sold,> different story. It is impossible for her to not commingle.

The report was disingenuous IMO. The problem is "the Swamp" is whatever people wanted it to be or say it is. Trump might think he is draining it.
Trump made no secret during the campaign he liked generals and "vicious killer" businessmen and bankers.

We'll see.

[Treetop]

The report was disingenuous IMO. The problem is "the Swamp" is whatever people wanted it to be or say it is. Trump might think he is draining it.
Trump made no secret during the campaign he liked generals and "vicious killer" businessmen and bankers.

We'll see.

Yep, notice those of us who supported Trump for the most part see no or little concern here. The ones who hesitatingly supported him, perhaps not liking clinton or for the supreme court are still happy hes not clinton. Those f us who actually thought Trump might do a good job in my experience still think he might. From what I see looking around it is those who never liked him at all for the most part who think he failed already. Ive seen articles listing all the wealth he has appointed to cabinet positions insisting this is proof he wont drain the swamp!! Except he never said he wanted to get wealthy people out of politics. He said he wanted to make the government work for the people. We havent seen anything at all that suggests he wont do this. Ive been told Im making excuses for him, but hes not even in office yet, lets see what he actually tries to do. Even many of his "insiders" are outsiders among the insiders.

Now if he does do as promised or mostly so? These people are digging their own graves. Well not graves they will still be there but they will push some of the people at the edge of their camp into Trumps camp imo. I personally still think Trumps version of draining the swamp is going to happen. Might not be my ideal but insanely better then anything offered by other candidates who had a chance to win since I could vote imo. In the least with what he has proposed for the supreme court we keep our guns another generation or more.

[wolvesdad]

IMO ya'll both gave him a pass because 'he's not as bad as HC.'

If even half of their claims are true, he is in direct violation of 'conflict of interest' and 'having financial dealings' and ahould be straightened out ASAP.

As for 'not doing it for the money' ...he is egotistical and wants to get wealthier and wealthier. Otherwise he would have retired 5 years ago or 15 years ago. His 'Successful type' is not the type to be satisfied and retire. As long as you are ethical, there is nothing wrong with that. But if he is ok with cutting corners and bending the rules, then he is not to be trusted and will make himself out to be as much the crook as HC is. I pray none of his crookedness jeopardizes national security as HC's could have. BUT EVEN IF IT DOESNT, THAT DOES NOT MAKE criminal actions acceptable. This is exactly the problem we have had in politicians for the last 10-40years(or maybe 150 years!). It is exactly what he referred to as the swamp.....and now he is doing it. You can't give quarter to this behaviour just because "well what's the alternative? You want HC or Obama?" BS and No!! I want Americans that 'elected' this man to keep him accountable and be as honest with him as you were with HC and BHO.

[wolvesdad]

The report was disingenuous IMO. The problem is "the Swamp" is whatever people wanted it to be or say it is. Trump might think he is draining it.
Trump made no secret during the campaign he liked generals and "vicious killer" businessmen and bankers.

I don't know that disingenuous is the right word. I would completely say that the Young Turks are biased.

But if a thief and a liar points at sh$t and says "Hey, look, SH$T" you don't go ahead and walk through it or put it in your mouth just because the person saying that is generally a thief and liar.

You notice it, walk around it, and if you are community minded, you get a shovel and move it off the walk way.

Were the MAIN FACTS of what they said factual or not? EX. Did he in fact meet with the ambassador to Venezuela or Argentina, and soon there after, get a permit approved on a construction site in that country that have been pending for weeks months or years?
If he did, it IS USING YOUR POSITION for personal gain, and in his position as President Elect, IT IS a criminal and impeachable act.
Shame on him.

There ARE NO EXCUSES if that is what happened.


And the swamp is NOT just whatever each person perceives it to be. It was an image used in association with politicians that make deals with each other, that are for themselves and not helpful or beneficial for the health and safety of the country. Cronyism, bribes, etc.
If then, you go and do those exact things yourself, you are a hypocrite and not to be trusted, but to be fought against and despised....... ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO PUT THEIR HOPE, EXPECTATIONS, TIME AND ENERGY, AND FAITH IN YOU.

[Thogey]

What they are reporting could very well be true and this is what you are going to hear daily.

Everyone is permitted to be outraged .

This is going to be the new normal.

Trump will do lot's of business, this you can be certain.

[Thogey]

IMO ya'll both gave him a pass because 'he's not as bad as HC.'

Absolutely 100% true on my part.

[Thogey]

What I have a hard time reconciling is all the corruption around Trump. The conspiracies must be pretty thick for this BS to be going on and no one has resigned yet.

So what is the plan? What does he see at the end?

Or is Trump going to just slash and burn while he can?


BTW Every human being one will ever choose to do the following with will be hurt.
They should never be politicians.

ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO PUT THEIR HOPE, EXPECTATIONS, TIME AND ENERGY, AND FAITH IN YOU.

[wolvesdad]

BTW Every human being one will ever choose to do the following with will be hurt.
They should never be politicians.

ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO PUT THEIR HOPE, EXPECTATIONS, TIME AND ENERGY, AND FAITH IN YOU.

Ok...you said...??
....If you PUT YOUR HOPE, EXPECTATIONS, TIME AND ENERGY, AND FAITH IN a person/politician you will be hurt.
?? Is that a correct rewording of your statement?

I didn't mean those as an all-inclusive package, but any one, two, three or all of those. Tons of people put some expectation and A LOT of time and energy into the Trump campaign. Are they wrong?? No. He was making promises that sounded good and he should follow through on. We need people to put love and energy into good candidates. IF Trump turns his back to those people and breaks his promises to them because he never planned to keep them, he should be 'brought out back and *EDITED OUT*.'

No one should make claims and promises they do not intend to keep. We need to stop giving anyone a PASS and to start holding each politician to their Word.

And if that means us, as citizens, to spend less time waxing poetic on a Forum of 1000 people and instead writing letters, making calls and following through to hold the politician to it, so be it.

[Thogey]

BTW Every human being one will ever choose to do the following with will be hurt.
They should never be politicians.

ESPECIALLY BY THOSE WHO PUT THEIR HOPE, EXPECTATIONS, TIME AND ENERGY, AND FAITH IN YOU.

Ok...you said...??
....If you PUT YOUR HOPE, EXPECTATIONS, TIME AND ENERGY, AND FAITH IN a person/politician you will be hurt.
?? Is that a correct rewording of your statement?

I didn't mean those as an all-inclusive package, but any one, two, three or all of those. Tons of people put some expectation and A LOT of time and energy into the Trump campaign. Are they wrong?? No. He was making promises that sounded good and he should follow through on. We need people to put love and energy into good candidates. IF Trump turns his back to those people and breaks his promises to them because he never planned to keep them, he should be 'brought out back and *EDITED OUT*.'

No one should make claims and promises they do not intend to keep. We need to stop giving anyone a PASS and to start holding each politician to their Word.

And if that means us, as citizens, to spend less time waxing poetic on a Forum of 1000 people and instead writing letters, making calls and following through to hold the politician to it, so be it.

Agree with all of it.

Tons of people put some expectation and A LOT of time and energy into the Trump campaign. Are they wrong??

Since evidence shows Trump is already corrupt it looks like they were. They should renounce Trump.

[Rosco]

Get A Grip He is not yet Installed

Lets go 50 Days before we Panic

I have Faith So I will take Heat with Out Complaint if nothing is accomplished
Mean time give US a Chance

Peace

[wolvesdad]

Get A Grip He is not yet Installed

Lets go 50 Days before we Panic

I have Faith So I will take Heat with Out Complaint if nothing is accomplished
Mean time give US a Chance

Peace

I guess my response to that would be: if he starts off on the wrong foot, and nobody from his support group really calls him on it or says anything, it will be taken as 'permission' to do even more crooked stuff.

If you have faith, THEN be writing in and calling in to his 'office' because you ARE expecting him to come around and do the right thing. IF everyone waits 50 days, then 100 days, then 4x365 days there will just be bigger issues.

I'm not saying to move to Canada. I am saying, be as critical of him as you would of HC or have been of BHO. And don't just blog about concerns, make your voice heard by 'his teams' ears. If I can find a #, I am calling tomorrow.

[IdahoCopper]

My guess is the MSM will continously demonize Trump at every slightest opportunity.

There will be news, puffed up news, fake news, all crafted to smash him in every way possible.

They did that before, during, and now after the election.

So my advice is to cool your jets. There is no way anything said about Trump is as bad as the MSM desperately wants you to think.

[Treetop]

Did he in fact meet with the ambassador to Venezuela or Argentina, and soon there after, get a permit approved on a construction site in that country that have been pending for weeks months or years?

Hadnt heard of Venezuela. I didnt find anything in a quick search, what is supposed to have happened there?

Im still going to take time before I make a judgement on this personally. Could be with argentina the dude knew the president of the US was about to call him and approved of the deal to try to seem cool for the phone call. As I understand it argentina tried to contact him for awhile and waited for a response. Might be they just wanted him happy. Ill be happy to help nail him to a wall if I see an actual trend of corruption of that nature, but the shape of this particular case could easily just be the little dog wanting to please the big one. If it goes that way atleast we saved gun rights in the supreme court. Will potentially slow or stop illegal immigration as well.

Admittedly I didnt watch the young turks video. That guy is way to annoying to me. His style grates on my nerves.

[Thogey]

Get A Grip He is not yet Installed

Lets go 50 Days before we Panic

I have Faith So I will take Heat with Out Complaint if nothing is accomplished
Mean time give US a Chance

Peace

Too late. The young turks, nate, the msm and everyone else, who does not know him, says he is wrought with corruption. Therefore everyone he selects is also a villain.

Its over. He has been proclaimed corrupt. So now it is time to jump up and down and stomp your feet and be angry that Jesus Christ was not on the ticket.

[wolvesdad]

If it goes that way atleast we saved gun rights in the supreme court. Will potentially slow or stop illegal immigration as well.

Admittedly I didnt watch the young turks video. That guy is way to annoying to me. His style grates on my nerves.

Well worth the chuckle!!! You should watch it, but I give you a pass this time because he IS such a douche. I can only watch 1 video a month. Or less.

Now to this first quote I retained: stop immigration? I have $8K in coins and precious metals that I will put up even odds against anyone that a) No complete wall is built and b) immigration is not 90% or more slowed. (My position is that in 4 years, no wall is built, and immigration will not get slowed by 50%, much less by 90%)

I worked down there, its all hype and politics. Has been since the BP was commissioned 90 years ago! Was under GW busch, and will be under DJ Hairstyle.

Slowed, probably by 5-30% just by illegals thinking its a bad idea now.

[wolvesdad]

Get A Grip He is not yet Installed

Lets go 50 Days before we Panic

I have Faith So I will take Heat with Out Complaint if nothing is accomplished
Mean time give US a Chance

Peace

Too late. The young turks, nate, the msm and everyone else, who does not know him, says he is wrought with corruption. Therefore everyone he selects is also a villain.

Its over. He has been proclaimed corrupt. So now it is time to jump up and down and stomp your feet and be angry that Jesus Christ was not on the ticket.

Thogey, you know that sarcasm doesn't translate well outside of face-face situations, right!?
Cracking me up. But honestly... I think I must've read comments from you before that I took as you being serious, that you were probably being sarcastic in. So now I'm just confused. What else is new?


If I may, in regards to the often spouted claim: "no body is perfect" (ala the JC 'jest')
No body is perfect: true.
Just as long as we are clear that there is a difference between being a flawed person, and being an intentionally deceptive and dishonest person. On earth, we will always have to except the former, but in a democratic republic-ish the citizenry should not ever put up with the later.
And yes, media of all sides so emotionalizes and dramatizes the facts, that a simple honest representation of the facts is rarely presented. Which is why, if you are brave enough to do so, you trudge through as much horse sh$t as you can handle in order to glean the bits of truth. Just because the MSM trashed DJ Hairstyle during the election, does not mean that everything that they say that is against him now and here-on-out is false and/or invalid. Again, my 'liar and thief and the pile of sh$t analogy.'

And now I've spent my 'political' time here waxing poetic again and didn't find that number. But I'm done today...i need to get that done tmw.

[Thogey]

Sorry, I thought the sarcasm was pretty clear and obvious. It was directed at Rosco's comment, hence the quote.

My problem is that there were two choices on the ballot.
I made some bets and voted for Trump. Other than that, like many Americans, I'm just not emotionally involved. I don't feel betrayed by Trump's reported corruption because I don't have an emotional attachment to these people. Not only that, I accept that there are no reals facts available to me. Therefore I cannot get upset at facts I do not know.

If you are not in the room you may as well form whatever emotion or opinion you want.

Just because the MSM trashed DJ Hairstyle during the election, does not mean that everything that they say that is against him now and here-on-out is false and/or invalid.

How do you decide what is true? How do you glean the truth?

Trump being corrupt is not a shock. He very well may be and that does suck.
With all the stories about the naked corruption it must be true.

f I may, in regards to the often spouted claim: "no body is perfect" (ala the JC 'jest')
No body is perfect: true.
Just as long as we are clear that there is a difference between being a flawed person, and being an intentionally deceptive and dishonest person. On earth, we will always have to except the former, but in a democratic republic-ish the citizenry should not ever put up with the later.

Apparently we do have to put up the latter, because all we had to choose from is intentionally deceptive and dishonest people.

Nate enumerated in detail with references why Trump was unfit and dishonest. That's why I started the thread. There should be no surprises.

[wolvesdad]

Apparently we do have to put up the latter, because all we had to choose from is intentionally deceptive and dishonest people.

I've heard a number quoted, that if 40% ?? of the population united in opposition to a corrupt politician, one a time. They could get them impeached, ousted, held accountable or other such tom-foolery.
I don't know about that. But what I heard once.

It won't work if people are just emotionally charged Party supporters(see all the rally and protest BS on YT?).

But if 40% of the citizenry were clear thinking/honest and from all groups and were to unite, "nothin would be impossible."

I hate being a synic as many are here: good luck with that.

I think there is reason to still give our fellow man the benefit of the doubt. But it will take a well spoken patriotic citizen, that doesn't get assasinated, for the unification and fight to begin.

[Thogey]

There are plenty of blatantly racist/xenophobic people and organizations declaring their support for Trump. That may not be the message he is delivering, but there is plenty of read-between-the-lines wink-wink nudge-nudge going on on the receiving end. Of course I do not expect a candidate to go around vetting and denouncing supporters (even Ron Paul got some endorsements he would have been better off without), but I do think there is some intentional ambiguity in Trump's strategy as to not dissuade these voters. Even if he is 100% earnest in his message and intentions, it is still concerning to see a lot of hateful people rallying around one candidate. Politicians tend to pander to their voter base, and I have a lot of reservations about the voter base Trump is establishing.

I'm actually quite agitated by the news and the reaction of the idiots reporting the news, concerning the latest RACIST attack in Chicago.

I've also read a couple stories about hoaxes. H'mm what is real and what is a hoax

This event will be a real test in of the political correct filter strength.

When I see the picture and read the article, God forgive me, my thoughts about this situation are far from tolerant and pure. Archie Bunker would be embarrassed.

I will not watch a video of it.

[aloneibreak]

There are plenty of blatantly racist/xenophobic people and organizations declaring their support for Trump. That may not be the message he is delivering, but there is plenty of read-between-the-lines wink-wink nudge-nudge going on on the receiving end. Of course I do not expect a candidate to go around vetting and denouncing supporters (even Ron Paul got some endorsements he would have been better off without), but I do think there is some intentional ambiguity in Trump's strategy as to not dissuade these voters. Even if he is 100% earnest in his message and intentions, it is still concerning to see a lot of hateful people rallying around one candidate. Politicians tend to pander to their voter base, and I have a lot of reservations about the voter base Trump is establishing.

I'm actually quite agitated by the news and the reaction of the idiots reporting the news, concerning the latest RACIST attack in Chicago.

I've also read a couple stories about hoaxes. H'mm what is real and what is a hoax

This event will be a real test in of the political correct filter strength.

When I see the picture and read the article, God forgive me, my thoughts about this situation are far from tolerant and pure. Archie Bunker would be embarrassed.

I will not watch a video of it.

hate crime charges have been filed -- not sure how IL's law is written, whether they are for the racial aspect or the mentally disabled person aspect -- probably the latter

i cringe when the phrase " hate crime " is used, because it now has such a broad application depending on whose feels got hurt

there has been plenty of so-called " hate speech " in this very thread

i think chicago is fearful of the trump DOJ, so they acted quickly on this to give the illusion that they have things under control

remember, charges filed and an actual conviction and appropriate punishment are two totally different things

i have high hopes that the incoming DOJ will help get a handle on chicago and this whole nationwide racial/blm mess

otherwise, race war is coming -- and the instigators have no idea what theyre in for

[Thogey]

That press guy, Spicer.

He is a twitchy squirrely guy. He does not inspire confidence.

[Thogey]

Schumer pulled out the tears ways too soon. Where does he (schumer) go from here?

What is with all the damn public crying from our "leaders".
Trump is going to mock this $hit every time. It is fun to watch.
Trump just got the world to accept the Syrians as a protest to himself.

Canada Germany Starbucks all agreed to take on the problem. Now that is American leadership.

[Treetop]

This is BIZARRE to watch. Obama signed off on blocking refugees in 2011 from iraq for 6 months. Wasnt an executive order, but the gov did it and obama signed off on it. Turns out the list of 7 nations came out of the obama admin as well, they had 4 names in 2015 and added 3 more in 2016. I wonder if trump set it up to troll them. Announcing the ban, then waiting a day or two to point out th elist came from obamas admin AFTER they all called out the list and choice of nations. Also obama ended the cuban "wetfoot dryfoot" policy that let cuban refugees show up here and left many stranded on the way here. Some in othher nations some in airports. This isnt a likely source of danger, no real reason to do this Im aware of. Ive heard speculation he wasnt happy lots of cubans voted republican but who knows the logic. Either way Obama did very similar things as trump did here and the media and left didnt bat an eye. Heck he BOMBED most of the nations on trumps list the last few years and even the usually anti war left collectively and media made excuses for it and people died rather then getting temporarily banned from coming here until we have solid vetting. which btw although we do vet people the intelligence community has put out reports for years saying they cannot vet properly and want an update to this system.

So for me the left just comes off as increasingly crazy and hypocritical. Heck with the mexico thing.... Bill clinton gave a speech on a border fence in 2005, obama bragged above finishing the part bush got passed, hillary recently as 2015 supported the idea. Except now hillary says it is un american and obama mocks trump over it.

So why is there what appears to be a concerted effort on the left to even change past stances and ignore their own history to make trump look bad? I mean anyone who follows politics whos even vaguely intellectually honest either sees through it or will in time. Keep in mind most americans are ending up in the center NOT as republicans or democrats, so whoever wins over the center controls the future. I highly doubt all this crying and protesting/rioting will help their cause long term.

[68Camaro]

It's purely anti-Trump. The dems/left have supposedly decided they are going all-out to resist absolutely everything he does with all they have. Dirty tricks, manipulations and gross distortions should be expected.