European Fractional Gold

[Lemon Thrower]

I have been looking at older European fractional gold as an alternative to US fractionals which have a steep premium. Which European fractional gold is "best" or most liquid, and do you take a big hit in liquidity while trying to save a few bucks on the premium? For example, I would assume British sovereigns at .2354 troy oz are very liquid, but they seem rather hard to come by. On the other hand,Nucleo and Tulving always has French roosters, but I am far less familiar with those.

[Country]

Roosters are very liquid. There were millions of them minted in the early 20th century (many were melted down too). Each 20F GOLD coin contains .1867 AGW when minted. They're a nice alternative to expensive US fractionals.

Other European GOLD that you could consider are Belgium 10F (half the size of a Rooster)/20F (.1867 AGW), France 10F/20F Napoleons, Prussia (Germany) 10Mark/20Mark (.2304 AGW), Italy 20 Lira GOLD (.1867 AGW), and Swiss 20F (.1867 AGW) coins. Many folks in the US are a little unfamiliar with these coins as they have been bonded to AGEs for awhile now. The Euro GOLD has been around for a long time, and will be soon familiar to most in the US when GOLD prices go geometric.

Don't overpay for these and try to get AU-BU coins (better GOLD content). Try to buy them near spot GOLD. The price will vary, so look for bargains. All 20F Euro GOLD is .1867 AGW, 10F is half size.

Tulving is a good place to buy these GOLD coins, but he does not have these always available at all times. You can buy Sovereigns from him (be ready to buy a tube of 45) too for spot+$9 when he has them occasionally. BD has Roosters all the time, but they are hard to get at a good price on Nucleo. Try buying at Coin shows. Some dealers will sell you foreign GOLD at spot.

[argent_pur]

The three fractional European gold coins that I would say have the highest liquidity would be:

1-UK British Sovs
2-Swiss 20 Franc
3-French 20 Franc

Any coin dealer worth anything, however, would know all the coins Country mentioned and more. BUT the spread will be wider for them. Stick to sovereigns and 20 francs and you'll be fine. I've read that the CIA issues "kits" to agents overseas, and in the Atlantic Kit there are (among other things) a full sovereign, (2) 20 swiss francs, and a gold watch for barter purposes.

[beauanderos]

Do a search on ebay for completed listings and determine which coins seem to sell the most and the premiums entailed. http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell ... px?co_id=0

[wagsthadog]

Hi there-

I agree with all previous comments-

I know they're not European per se, but have you looked into Mexican gold coins?- they are .900 fine, almost always very close to spot, come in a variety of sizes, and are based on the US pre-33 weight standard. (i.e, a Mexican 20 pesos has exactly the same gold as a US eagle, a dos pesos is the same as a gold dollar, etc.) They are widely known (or should be) by any coin dealer worthy of the name.

Regarding European gold fractionals and liquidity, and just my opinion, I think sovereigns are the king, no pun intended, followed probably by any 20franc denomination (rooster, Swiss, etc.). German 20 marks are also always popular, it seems, but they tend to carry a premium. Russian gold coins seem to be really popular,with high premiums, but I never bought one. I know there are Austrian Ducats out there, but I didn't really care for them- they just looked too flimsy and odd for my taste. I like meaty coins that you can handle without issue. : )

Almost every European country has issued gold coins, but I would say that Sovereigns, any 20francs, and German 20 marks are the most widely known and liquid. In my experience, if the dealer has to look up a coin in the coin book, it's not a good sign for getting a great price.

Again, unless you really prefer European Gold, I think Mexican gold gives you a very respectable bang for the buck. You can find them at spot with little effort.

wags

[Lemon Thrower]

my sense is that the Sovereigns are most liquid, but seem to be less available. French seems to be most available and has good liquidity. don't see the swiss much. mexican i mostly see the 1.2057 size.

[wagsthadog]

Hi Lemon-

You should definitely check out a coin show if you haven't. If you go to yahoo or google and type in "coin show in (your state)" you will be able to find a listing of coin shows in your state. You'll be amazed at the variety of coins they have at these sales. If you're looking for bullion, you should be able to find it at/near spot or at least what a fair coin shop would charge you. Of course, like anywhere, there are ripoffs. But it's good practice! It also gives you an opportunity to overhear what trends are going, and what's hot/not.

wags

[argent_pur]

Off the top of my head:

APMEX, MintProducts, and Provident sell ALL three coins. BD sells the rooster. Tulving sells the sovs (high min. order of course). I'm not recalling where you're from, Dave, but I've never had an issue finding any of the three coins to buy.

Mexican gold: APMEX, MintProducts, & Provident also sell ALL denominations from 2 peso to 50 peso and are quite liquid. Although I wouldn't buy anything under 10 peso just because of the spreads involved. Good luck in your endeavors, Dave

Edit: I believe coinflation gives the melt value of the sovereigns and 20 francs in it's gold page, so you can calculate what these various dealers are charging over spot percentage-wise versus fractional contemporary bullion coins like the eagle, maple, phil, or krug.

[Country]

http://www.coininfo.com/

Melt value of all common bullion coins updated with live prices. Enjoy....

[AGgressive Metal]

Agree 100% with European fractionals. Austrian Ducats, German 20 Marks, British Sovereigns, Swiss 20 Franc, French 20 Franc, Belgian 20 Francs, Russian Rubles (pre-communist), to name the major ones. Most of these are not obscure at all and will be known to any competent coin dealer.

[Lemon Thrower]

which of these is most liquid and justifies the highest premium?

[argent_pur]

King of the hill has got to be the UK sovereign.

[AGgressive Metal]

which of these is most liquid and justifies the highest premium?

Most liquid imo:

1. British Sovereigns
2. Swiss 20 Franc
3. French 20 Franc
4. German 20 Marks
5. Russian 5 Roubles

[involuntary tentacle]

anyone have an opinion on fiji or isle of man gold?
i see these from time to time.

[JadeDragon]

Dealer just tried to charge me $175 on a 1/4 oz Isle of Man compared to $156 for a 1/4 oz Maple.

[Lemon Thrower]

which of these is most liquid and justifies the highest premium?

Most liquid imo:

1. British Sovereigns
2. Swiss 20 Franc
3. French 20 Franc
4. German 20 Marks
5. Russian 5 Roubles

That was exactly what I was looking for, thanks buddy!

[Devil Soundwave]

anyone have an opinion on fiji or isle of man gold?
i see these from time to time.

Isle of Man stuff should be of comparabale quality to mainland UK gold. Some of the designs are awful though.

Personally I like UK half sovs, but I appreciate that they will be a bit of a ball-ache to get hold of in the USA given their often low runs.

[involuntary tentacle]

stay away from isle of man... check

anyone into asian gold? besides china of course.

besides the language barrier on most coins, are there any that are almost as liquid as the european coins discussed in this thread?
again, besides china

[argent_pur]

stay away from isle of man... check

anyone into asian gold? besides china of course.

besides the language barrier on most coins, are there any that are almost as liquid as the european coins discussed in this thread?
again, besides china

Aside from Chinese Pandas, there are no far east coins that are coming to mind that are anywhere near as liquid as euro fractionals. Check around your closest coin dealers and every online dealer you can find, starting with the big names (APMEX, BD, Tulving, Provident, Gainesville, NWTMint, etc..)

If those guys aren't selling far east gold (aside from pandas), then they aren't buying it, either. You would have to find a private party that shared your affinity for asian coins, but with all the fakes that come from that region, finding a buyer might prove a difficult task. However, if you want to buy them just because you like them and don't plan to re-sell then buy what you like

[Lemon Thrower]

what do you guys think about Mexican gold?

[TXBullion]

Dealer just tried to charge me $175 on a 1/4 oz Isle of Man compared to $156 for a 1/4 oz Maple.

Do you mean 1/10? because that would be really cheap

[AGgressive Metal]

what do you guys think about Mexican gold?

sells fine to a dealer but they made lots of different types which are not well known among the general public.