War Stories about Coin Dealers

[Recyclersteve]

This is a new thread about war stories in your dealings with coin dealers. This would typically involve stories at those with walk-in coin shops, but might also include something interesting or unusual that happened at a coin show or perhaps even in a dealing on this site.

PLEASE be careful not to disclose anything confidential that the other person would not want to see mentioned on this site. I'll start with one from this week...

I was at a local coin shop and the owner likes to talk with me quite a bit about the stock market, my other hobby.

He said it had been busy that day up til a few minutes before I arrived. We started talking about those times when he might buy an unsorted lot of coins and go through them to find a key date only because the seller wouldn't take the time to do a bit of legwork first.

So right as I mention the subject, he says "See that pile in front of you?" It was mostly foreign junk on the counter in front of me, possibly some silver but not much. Nothing to write home about at all. The dealer probably paid less than $100 for the whole thing. He said "Look at that dime." Sure enough it was a raw 1916-D Mercury dime in About Good condition buried in the lot of mostly foreign junk. A nice evenly worn example that should be VERY EASY to sell.

[Market Harmony]

I'm going to respond to your post by dovetailing into a response I posted in another thread that you started. Here is a part of the backstory of the history behind Market Harmony, and what sets up the rest of the story below: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=41489&p=319888#p319783

So, the way my journey went from potential hedge manager to coin dealer was not at all what I had expected, and probably not what anyone might expect, either. After basically losing all that I had as a stock trading newb, I defiantly stuck to researching potential markets in which to speculate. And, since I dabbled in the gold and silver market privately and on a small scale, and had watched the value of them increase, I decided to rebuild myself by trading metals. I successfully began trading gold and silver electronically. After some time though, I wanted physical bars of silver and gold to hold. I started with silver and was hooked. I still have my first 2 purchases: I first bought two 10 oz Golden Analytical silver poured bars and a set of Franklin Mint sterling silver ship bars in a display case. The 10 oz bars are socked away in a drawer and the ships hang above my small office bookshelf... I'll probably never get rid of either of these. The poured bars remind me of the inspiration I had to try melting my own bars (starting with copper and then other metals) and the ships because I got them for less than melt and I learned that I could scour Ebay and get better deals for less-than-pure silver and then melt that stuff down for refining and make money in the process. That led to the refining end of Market Harmony. But, this is not why I am responding. I want to tell you about why I am a coin dealer. And, it is a bit of a war story.

In my zeal to begin to acquire gold and silver in physical form I had decided to go to a coin show in Monroeville, PA. I had heard an advertisement on the radio and got all excited by the ad for "gold and silver bullion and coin, and hundreds of dealers, and no sales tax" right at the time I was back on my feet and really getting into the market for metals. I made a decision to take my checkbook and head to the show. I had grand ideas of what was about to happen and how awesome the experience was going to be. What I got was nothing at all what I expected, but exactly what I needed.

At the show I witnessed a lot of activity. There was a lot of buying and selling and I began to see the spreads involved. Dealers were buying silver bars at $2 back of spot and selling for $3 over spot... and they were BUSY! I was lurking at an especially busy table when a gentleman approached the dealer with a bag of 10 oz poured bars and inquired of price. He did not like the offer and as soon as he stood up from the table to leave I approached him to see if he would sell them to me. He agreed on my price and we decided to go to the lounge area to seal the deal. Unbeknownst to me, but known to this gentleman, what we were doing was against the "rules" of conduct at coin shows... No sniping, and no floor dealing.

He was very suspicious of dealing with me and secretive in his actions. We couldn't be seen leaving together and we needed to act quickly when the deal was on the table. When that time came and I pulled out my checkbook, he said he only wanted cash. Ugh! He didn't tell me that upfront. So, in order to make it all happen I had to withdraw from my checking account the amount of the deal. The problem was that the ATM limited transactions to $300. And, each transaction would cost $3.50 for the ATM fee and some additional fee from my own bank because I was withdrawing from a non-bank ATM. But, after figuring all the costs, it still made sense to make the deal happen. After many withdrawals and fees piling up, I finally was able to get enough cash for the deal. Little did I know that our activity was tipped off by the table dealer, and I was under surveillance the whole time. When the deal between the gentleman and I was about to meet its final transactional end, it was interrupted by my day in the coin show coming to an end instead. Before I got back to the seller, security approached me and escorted me from the building. I was burned.

Dejected and fuming, I was then pacing the parking garage with a wad of $20 bills bulging in my pocket, reminding me of the deal gone bad. I stayed there for a while, watching people come and go. Some were holding canvas bags of 90%, some had boxes of unknown goodies, some were pulling large stashes from their car trunks so big that the shocks would spring the car up a few inches when they pulled it from the vehicle. Everyone else was either entering hopeful or leaving satisfied. But me, well I was a coin show parking garage silver junkie. I was trying to get my fix of silver bullion from one of these lucky folks- attempting to snipe deals before they ever went in the door! It was low. But, I didn't even know how low I truly was.

I was justified in my own mind that I should be getting those deals... I had the money (now in $20 bills), and my prices were better than what was inside. Nobody would deal with me. I failed to realize that the dealers who paid their table fees and took the time to set up at the show rightfully earned the opportunity to deal with all the people who heard the same ads on the radio or read them in the paper; who wouldn't have transacted that day unless they knew there was a marketplace where 100's of dealers would all congregate; and who wanted to transact with a vetted enterprise. I was some silver junkie, kicked out of a coin show, trying to score a parking garage fix by asking people, "what's in the bag?" Looking back, it's really laughable to me. It was ridiculous. That low was just what I needed.

Without this experience and the resulting new understanding of coin show dynamics, I would have never decided to try setting up at coin shows myself. Becoming a "dealer" was what I was supposed to be. Sitting on the other side of the table meant that I made my own buy and sell spreads. It meant that I was supposed to be there to make deals happen. I was then able to truly compete and get access to those deals that make vehicle suspensions sag, or come in a clandestine canvas bag, or even get pulled out of hidden pockets. Becoming a coin dealer was just what I was supposed to do. But I never knew this until retrospectively examining just how wonderfully I fumbled along the path to become who I am.

[chris6084]

I used to have a local coin dealer that I sold to regularly. They were one of the largest coin shops in my area, so they were always busy. They paid spot on just about anything pure, and paid over spot on eagles and maples. Since they paid over spot, their sell prices were also very high, so I never bought anything there. But since I could get over spot from them, get cash instantly, and not worry about things being lost in the mail, I sold almost any eagle and maple I got my hands on to them.

So one day, I have the opportunity to buy some junk foreign silver. I knew it would be hard to sell, but the price was too good to pass up, so I bought it. I was having a hard time finding a buyer, so I decided to try the coin shop I would normally sell to. When I walked in, I noticed something different. They always had their buy/sell prices written up on a white board, and I always checked them no matter what I was going in there for. I noticed that their prices were different. They were buying for less than spot on everything and selling for higher than what they typically sold for. Platinum eagles really got my attention. They were paying $100 UNDER spot for 1 oz platinum eagles and selling for $300 OVER. A $400 spread on platinum eagles! Wow I thought, but I wasn't there to sell eagles, so I figured it didn't really matter at that time.

So when I walk to the counter, some new guy is there and asks how can he help me. I say I have something to sell, and he calls for the normal guy who does all their buying. The buyer comes over to ask what I am selling. I plop my bag of silver on the counter and tell him. He says "If it's not more than $10k, I don't want it." I say it's about $2k, he said he wasn't interested and walked away.

I was a bit disappointed. But I figured they would have just melted this, so maybe they wanted a large amount to make it worthwhile for them. So considering that, I figured no big deal, I'll come back again.

So I go back a few weeks later with some gold maples to sell. I notice the same buy prices as last time, they are still paying less than spot. I wasn't happy about that, but I had bought these intending to flip quick to this shop. And since the price was still good enough for me to make a bit of profit on, I decided to try to sell them anyways. So their normal buyer comes over asking what I have to sell. I say gold maples. He barely let me finish saying that before he said "If it is not more than $10k, I won't even talk about it." I said it wasn't so he turned around and walked away without another word. I look around the shop and notice that I don't recognize any of the employees other than the buyer. I think to myself that I am probably done with this place, and I walk out.

I wasn't sure why the change, but I suspected a change of ownership. I knew it was nothing personal. Although I sold a lot to them, their volume was so high, that I know I wasn't even on their radar. They never acted like they recognized me when I walked in. So I knew it wasn't a "don't buy from that guy" type of thing.

So while being disappointed about loosing a good local coin dealer, I notice one day that a new coin shop opened right across the street from the post office where my PO box was. Literally right across the street! I go in to check it out, and it was all the same guys from the previous store! They had sold the other store, and opened a new one right across town much closer to me. They had the same buy/sell spread that they used to have at the other store.

So in the end, it worked out pretty well. My post office was close to my work. So I could leave on my lunch break, check my PO box, if I had an item I intended to sell to them, I would bring it across the street right away, sell to them, and deposit the cash at the bank on my way back to work. All within my lunch break!

[Recyclersteve]

Another war story about a local coin dealer...

One of the employees of a local dealer near me was on vacation this past summer driving through the state of Kansas and happened to have a metal detector with him. He likes finding old remote areas (long vacant homes, parks, etc.) and found one in the middle of nowhere (about 2 hours from Dodge City, KS).

He used his detector and found coins and just put them into his pocket as he found them. Then, when he was done searching the site, he went through his findings. He found a Buffalo nickel that was in pretty decent shape, although it was dark. When he put a little water on it to clean it up, he was shocked to find that it was a 1916 Double Die!!! He wanted to call his boss and tell him what he found, but there was no cell phone reception in this remote area. He did later send a picture of the coin to his boss, who thought the guy was kidding. The boss showed it to another coworker, who also thought he was kidding. After all, it would be far more believable to find something like a 1915-S than it would be to find the VERY BEST DATE in the whole series.

When he got back home, he had the coin sent in to be certified. It was sent to NGC and came back graded "VF- Environmental Damage", which was actually better than what he hoped for.

By the way, he told me he has no desire whatsoever to sell the coin.

[Recyclersteve]

And yet another war story about a local dealer- this one is now retired and this happened years ago.

A lot of coins came into the shop and was bought. The lot didn't appear to be special in any way. One of the employees likes holed coins and tends to look more closely at beat up coins that he sees.

One coin in an otherwise unspectacular lot was an old one in lousy condition. It was an 1802 half dime!!! Look that one up- mintage was only 3,060 pieces. They sent it off to be certified and it came back certified as Genuine. They decided to sell it through Heritage Auctions.

The coin sold for over $20,000, and the employee who found it could have easily stolen it if he wanted to. But, being the honest guy he is, he let the shop owner know what he found. I have not heard whether the employee ever got a reward- I sure hope he did and that it was something better than a free dinner!

[Treetop]

We were in the city awhile back (Albuquerque) and had a bit of extra cash so I wanted to buy some silver. I wouldn't call this a war story exactly but still fits this thread more then others. Anyway, we went to about 4 places as we traversed only one road on the way to a non related place. One was a jewelry store that said they had silver and had the best prices. I kinda like to but eagles or maples now but I still love my 90% and that is all they had. The ladies acted all rushed as I combed over the tray of 90% they offered me to peruse. I was taking 5-7 coins of the same type into my fingers and holding it just tight enough the coins with more wear fell through. These women FREAKED OUT. While they let me buy the specific coins I wanted the fact I bought those with the least wear on them flipped them out somehow. I only bought about 120$ worth. Yet they acted like I was a bank robber or something even though they processed the transaction and it all happened within minutes. It was a really strange experience since they didnt just hand me random 90% but let me pick yet got weirded out by me wanting the least worn coins. They had a sign up saying they bought gold and silver and had no gold to sell. For whatever that is worth. Well besides their rings of course, but I wasnt buying those. I highly doubt they remembered me but I was in the same store years before. the only two times I bought silver in person was there. Simply because of their prices. coin stores in the city here are pretty bad usually besides there if you want 90% it is usually right at spot it seems.

[Recyclersteve]

And yet another war story about a local dealer- this one is now retired and this happened years ago.

A lot of coins came into the shop and was bought. The lot didn't appear to be special in any way. One of the employees likes holed coins and tends to look more closely at beat up coins that he sees.

One coin in an otherwise unspectacular lot was an old one in lousy condition. It was an 1802 half dime!!! Look that one up- mintage was only 3,060 pieces. They sent it off to be certified and it came back certified as Genuine. They decided to sell it through Heritage Auctions.

The coin sold for over $20,000, and the employee who found it could have easily stolen it if he wanted to. But, being the honest guy he is, he let the shop owner know what he found. I have not heard whether the employee ever got a reward- I sure hope he did and that it was something better than a free dinner!

UPDATE- I spoke with the former employee and found out that his reward was $1,000. That is pretty cheap in my opinion considering what he did.

[everything]

That's not a bad bonus reward, 5% commission.
Ever buy silver alongside the road? My coworker who is a fast dealer picked up silver when it bottomed, 500 oz. Some time after the purchase he said he was bringing it into town the next day to sell it for the best deal he could get. I go to my bank and get some money out, enough to get 100 oz., he had 100 oz. bars and the rest were 10 oz. bars.
I wish I would have bought it at all at 15.50 tax/duty free but he didn't give me enough time to think, and yes silver went back up to 20 after that. But yeah, I had to meet him on the road on his way into town just to get it.
My only real war story is my LCS guy making fun of me for buying old 80's 1 oz. bars with low mintages, he says you want to have one of everything or what? Last time I bought from him it was 15 less than 25000 mintage mint engelhard 1 oz. bars. He doesn't try hard enough to offer me deals on numismatic pieces anyways. He has never offered me a numi piece saying buy this it will treat you well. He overprices all his numi stuff anyway and thinks bars are worthless. Still my favorite LCS because he's lower on his junk .999 than anyone else in town. He even throws eagles in the junk bin if they are .. junk

[Recyclersteve]

That's not a bad bonus reward, 5% commission.

I was thinking 5% was cheap because they guy could have easily put it in his pocket and sent it to the auction house anonymously. The shop owner would have had no idea what was going on. So, for his honesty, I think the employee should have been treated better. Even my wife, who is very frugal said "Is that all?" when she heard the amount that he got.

[AdamsSamoa]

I was in a shop and some kids came in with a hand full of Franklin half dollars. They thought they were dollar coins. He told them no... these are 1/2 dollar coins. then he bought them from them for .50 each. I never went back to that guy again.

[Recyclersteve]

I started this thread about miscellaneous war stories a couple years ago and found my old notes about something that happened back in the day. So I thought I'd add it here...

In January, 2010 I went to a local dealer to buy some silver half dollars. It was one that I wasn't familiar with, as it is a bit of a drive from where I live.

I ended up buying $500 face in halves. When I went through the coins I found 133 coins (13.3% of the total) that were better dates. Of those 133 coins:

9 were Barber halves
52 (yes 52!) were 1933-S halves

The 1933-S coins were mostly VG-F, but as nice as VF. I had only seen a few 1933-S halves over the years and I've seen a LOT of silver halves. So it was staggering to me to get so many in a single haul. I wondered if the person who saved these coins was born in 1933 and this could have been the proceeds of their estate...