Trump

[68Camaro]

If corporations were so controlling wouldn't we see evidence that they are capable of persisting for hundreds of years. But few last 100 years. And the fastest growing corporations are less than 20 years old.

If the EPA was such a positive force, wouldn't we see evidence that their benefits outweigh the cost of their policies?

Are small businesses not the core of America? Every large corporation started as a small one, and every small corporation started as a small business. Is business growth not a good thing?

[Treetop]

Lots of things I disagree with john on I think, but I think Im going to leave most of it alone.

I am surprised libertarians dont like Trump at least a little. Lower taxes, less regulations, and it seems his protectionist trade mindset was meant to push for FREER trade. We get to keep the 2nd amendment at least another generation with his court pick. If we believe Dennis Rodman, then NK wanted a deal similar to what Trump is doing in 2013 and obama wanted nothing to do with it. Which hints at Trump being at least a little more on the peace side of things even if through strength. He has also supported kicking some things back to the states, and seems to be following up on it after being elected with his current stance on states legalizing pot.

While I wouldnt expect libertarians to love him, it does baffle me that most of them I know seem to hate trump as much as the left currently. Its making me wonder how much of being a libertarian for some people is about being a contrarian instead of supporting libertarian ideals themselves. Im certainly not intending for this to be seen as a dig on anyone.

[Thogey]

I will attempt to jump into your shoes and see the world thru your eyes.

If you do this you will want to cut your feet off and burn them with my shoes still on.
Then you will want to gouge my eyes out and feed them to your cat, just so no one else has to see the world thru them.

[Thogey]

Lots of things I disagree with john on I think, but I think Im going to leave most of it alone.

I am surprised libertarians dont like Trump at least a little. Lower taxes, less regulations, and it seems his protectionist trade mindset was meant to push for FREER trade. We get to keep the 2nd amendment at least another generation with his court pick. If we believe Dennis Rodman, then NK wanted a deal similar to what Trump is doing in 2013 and obama wanted nothing to do with it. Which hints at Trump being at least a little more on the peace side of things even if through strength. He has also supported kicking some things back to the states, and seems to be following up on it after being elected with his current stance on states legalizing pot.

While I wouldnt expect libertarians to love him, it does baffle me that most of them I know seem to hate trump as much as the left currently. Its making me wonder how much of being a libertarian for some people is about being a contrarian instead of supporting libertarian ideals themselves. Im certainly not intending for this to be seen as a dig on anyone.

How does one "resist" Trump? What exactly does that mean?

[johnbrickner]

Rich:

Good chance you won't like my answers as they for the most part don't answer your questions.

The accumulation of power and money does not assure longevity. Only that the accumulated becomes available to "lobby" with to bend the laws in a favorable direction to accumulate more. About this time you'll want me to mention competition so I won't go there.

What we are really talking about here is evidence of corporate wrong doing and laws being changed to accumulate more power. One only need look back to Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase, Citicorp and the Royal Bank of Scotland, UBS and BofA for manipulating the currency market, mis-selling mortgage securities, Libor interest rate and the forex rigging respectively. Late in May of this year the first of the Dodd-Frank rollback was approved by congress. And while the first rollback will not effect the above banks at this time, it will be no stretch of the imagination that a second rollback won't. In the meantime, it's business as usual and the paying of DoJ fines is just the cost of doing business. Here the costs don't outweigh the benefits of breaking the law. It's just corporate policy. Are the last quarter's profits up (growth)? Yes, then everything is OK.

When you talk about business growth you are talking economics, and when you are talking about economics you are talking about a science or area of study that does not account for the value of the earth systems that give us life, and the ability to provide civilization and humans their wants, needs, and desires. Additionally, economics is based on exponential growth in a finite world. The two are not compatible.

A science that cannot place a value on the systems which makes it's area of study possible and is also based on a faulty premise is a poor thing to risk the balance of humanity and the world we live on to. In my eyes, it kind of makes the EPA benefits/costs question . . . weak at best. It isn't always about maximizing the bottom line.

Not all business or business growth is bad, and small can be beautiful. I came across an organization called Greenwave. The bottom line here is an ocean farmer who came from the fisheries industries that are now depleted/ing and in addition to running his own farm/business, he teaches and facilitates others how to start a viable, growing, and sustainable maricultural system that has virtually zero inputs (no fertilizer or feed used,) cleans the ocean waters, adsorbs uber carbon, and all that is needed is a boat, $20,000 and 50 ocean acres. Also facilitated are the government hoops and regulations to jump through to make it all happen and some of the specific equipment used. It is beautiful as it provides tons of food for humans, jobs, has best practice standards for the industry, increases the variety and number of the natural occurring species in the area farmed and did I mention sustainable? This the kind of business that would rank very highly on a proper economics benefits/costs equation as it improves the condition of the earth's life giving systems and humanity as it is being done. (I'm guessing your going to want to communicate on this one, Treetop?).

Call me a contrarian (you may be right Treetop) or a green libertarian (it's the closest political label that seems to fit) and I thank you all for keeping me humble (maybe,) pointing out my mistakes and tolerating my presence.

(Apologies for the thread drift).

[Treetop]

Is repealing dodd-frank bad? I know we repealed glass stegall in the late 90s and many listed this as part of the issues that showed up in 08. Ive noticed while many talk of how much red tape dodd frank has Im wondering if its the ideal kind? I honestly have no idea. I do know however I highly doubt Obama would support it if it helped the little regular guy at all. Look at the law he championed to help save homeowners that shuffled money to banks, and mainly "saved" homes of people who werent likely to fail on their mortgage anyway, or the wikileaks drop that showed banks had told him who to hire before he got into office. My understanding (and correct me if Im wrong I never studied the details just the outlines) is glass stegall was much less red tape then dodd frank but held back the types of abuses that lead to 08s issues. Meanwhile since we had dodd frank the big banks are taking over small banks at a record pace, small banks having trouble dealing with all the new red tape perhaps?

I had never heard of greenwave, sounds neat. Ill be sure to look it up later. LOL Ive been trying to talk to people about related things since probably 01 or so. Artificial reefs could multiply the fish stocks and other methods like apparently what these greenwave people do. Cool thing is they can go deeper then actual reefs so as not to interfere with natural reefs. We can absolutely feed the world with such mindsets of managing various systems. I know Ive outlined much of my mindset on that here in the past. That is of course only one realm of humans balance with nature. We need hordes of economic activity outside of this type of thing.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/05/ ... ises-kept/

[Thogey]

I love him. I love him more than just about more than anyone I know.
I love and appreciate him so much, I really am starting to worry that if anything happens to him, what will we do? Time marches on, but who will replace him? God save Trump!

I also realize everyone you love will eventually disappoint you

[aloneibreak]

I love him. I love him more than just about more than anyone I know.
I love and appreciate him so much, I really am starting to worry that if anything happens to him, what will we do? Time marches on, but who will replace him? God save Trump!

I also realize everyone you love will eventually disappoint you

its been a year since mandalay

probably why the bump stock issue was revisited in his q & a

he says "we're in the final two or three weeks and i'll be able to write out bump stocks "

i believe bump stocks are a test run

if the executive branch can order the atf to rewrite the law, and therefore determine that something previously allowed under the law written and passed by congress is now illegal to possess, what kind of precedent will that set pertaining to not only gun rights, but any other part of this(or future) presidents agenda ?

there are three branches for a reason

none of them were meant to be all powerful

and for the record i dont believe the nra has showed any spine on this infringement

[Treetop]

I certainly do not like that Trump could simply just order the DOJ to change how it categorizes bump stocks. Currently they arent regulated because they are considered a gun part. The change itself doesnt bother me TO much, but definitely bothers me how it happened. The concentration of power in the executive branch is a troubling trend for sure, but Obama floated changing gun law in a similar way and while he technically could have the pushback was immense. Few care about saving bump stocks on either side of the debate. So Im not sure it really works as a test run for anything to do with guns, the push back against an assault weapons ban in 94 gave republicans the hous3e for the first time in like 40 years. If even 1/4 of the people were riled up about the bump stocks as the assault weps ban of the past I highly doubt Trum would do it myself.

That said, Im with thogey. I love Trump. I dont love everything he has done at all but hes the only president I have respect for since I was old enough to understand wth politics are.

My daughter wants to join the space force, lol.

[natsb88]

Democrats turned a blind eye to (or even cheered) overreaching executive power when Obama was in charge while Republicans condemned it. Trumpeters are turning a blind eye to (or even cheering) overreaching executive power with Trump in charge while Democrats (and others) condemn it.

I wonder what will happen when Democrats take over again in 2024.

Maybe president Cory Booker will order the DOJ or BATFE to reclassify firearms utilizing a collapsible stock, electronic sighting, or other "non gun parts."

Outrageous, you say? But the precedence was set by a Republican administration Surely it would be hypocritical of Trump supporters to oppose similar "common sense" gun control measures based solely on who is ordering them. That would make them look awfully silly.

[Treetop]

Trumpeters are turning a blind eye to (or even cheering) overreaching executive power with Trump in charge while Democrats (and others) condemn it.

I mean not to point out the obvious but my post was directly before yours and I didnt do this and I still love trump. (as compared to other recent presidents at least)

[natsb88]

Trumpeters are turning a blind eye to (or even cheering) overreaching executive power with Trump in charge while Democrats (and others) condemn it.

I mean not to point out the obvious but my post was directly before yours and I didnt do this and I still love trump. (as compared to other recent presidents at least)

Anybody participating on Realcent isn't exactly the average Trump supporter

[Treetop]

LOL. Ill have you know I did an averagbility test and I was average on every single factor they measured. (obviously I made this up but this is politics making up random things is allowed if you pretend to believe it)

[Thogey]

Anybody participating on Realcent isn't exactly the average Trump supporter

What does this mean?

[Treetop]

I will agree with the sentiment for sure that the concentration of power in the executive branch did not stop, I do think it slowed somewhat if only because of all the flak Trump gets from most of the media but its still there. I certainly dont give him any breaks on this, if some weird reason I got to talk to him this would be like half of what I bitched at him about. There are several equally as important issues I feel he has broken the mold for us on though. Which again doesnt make me happy about the parts I still disagree with him on, the surveillance state etc. If hilldog had won the 2nd amendment would be dead as soon as a court case had pushed it. Lots of other things Id point to but I dont have the energy for deep political debates lately.

I do get why many right leaning people dont love him, but it does shock me they dont AT LEAST like him more for instance then Bush. I strongly feel on several fronts we were watering down the US TO MUCH and for now... trump reversed that. All while seeing he clearly wishes he had more power. Im glad he doesnt even though Id like 85% of what he did with it.

[Thogey]

I don"t have the energy for deep political debates lately. .

Neither do I. That's why I love the man. He fights the battles, all you have to do is vote.

Bump stocks? It's just not a hill he wants to fight for. Shouldn't they be a class three item anyway?
I think the women he f*cks is a much bigger problem.

The problem is not the weapons, It's the existence of pure evil that's the problem.
This will not be resolved until the last day.

[Thogey]

Trumpeters are turning a blind eye to (or even cheering) overreaching executive power with Trump in charge while Democrats (and others) condemn it.

I mean not to point out the obvious but my post was directly before yours and I didnt do this and I still love trump. (as compared to other recent presidents at least)

The legislature and supreme court are supposed to provide guide rails, since we all know Jesus Christ will never be president. All the presidents overreach. Every human being who has ever lived finds the limit of what is acceptable. Trump does often make mistakes and over reach. I believe he does this because he loves us and wants the best for us. Anyone who does not believe this will never have common ground with Trump. It's all about your perspective.

You can substitute "Obama" in the above. But Trump has balls and what he is doing is working.

Who's life is $hittier because of Trump?

[natsb88]

Anybody participating on Realcent isn't exactly the average Trump supporter

What does this mean?

Seeking out and participating in a discussion board like Realcent requires some effort and initiative. Members here are generally ahead of the curve on understanding current events, economics, monetary policy, personal finance, etc. and don't automatically believe everything they hear on the news or are told by any politician. The average Trump or Hillary supporter is not as well informed and is less likely to be skeptical of any given policy position their preferred candidate endorses. If somebody can say they support Trump or Hillary overall, while also pointing out a Trump or Hillary position or policy they do not support, then they have already demonstrated more independent thinking than the average party line voter.

[Thogey]

Thanks. I didn't know the average Trump supporter was like that. Once again you have enlightened the forum.

[natsb88]

I believe he does this because he loves us and wants the best for us. Anyone who does not believe this will never have common ground with Trump. It's all about your perspective.

You can substitute "Obama" in the above. But Trump has balls and what he is doing is working.

I have never felt that level of trust/admiration for any president. Frankly I find it a little creepy I think there are a lot of reasons presidents do a lot of things. Selfless altruism...not very high up on the list. That type of person doesn't make it far enough in politics to become president. The closest I've seen in my lifetime would have to be Ron Paul, even then not 100%, and the party establishment made sure to shut that down.

[Treetop]

I get Trump is a narcissist. Id rank him as high or close on the altruism chart as Ron Paul though. Their goals are not the same, but I do honestly believe Trump is "america first". We obviously dont all agree on what those words mean, but I do believe Trump is doing his NYC republican version of it to the best he can.

[Thogey]

What did Trump have to gain? Remember he was a joke with no chance of winning let alone even running for president.
Ron Paul was a politician for what? 40 years? He didn't make millions in the Air Force. He capitalized on political fame and raised another politician (which reeks of narcissism BTW) Not that there is anything wrong with that .

Why do you think Trump is a narcissist? I was a child of extreme narcissistic abuse that affects me to this day. I don't see it in Trump.

[johnbrickner]

<snip> But Trump has balls and (some of) what he is doing is working.

I have never felt that level of trust/admiration for any president (and I never will). <snip> The closest I've seen in my lifetime would have to be Ron Paul, even then not 100%, and the party establishment made sure to shut that down.

(Emphasis and additional mine)

Great minds think similar thoughts.

Currently reading The Killing of Uncle Sam: The Demise of the United States of America May 2018. It is the best researched, documented source, book on the elite turning our country and world (think conspiracy theory) into a one world government I've ever come across. Sources cited gives it a ton of cred. I need to find the time when I'm done reading it to checkout the sources.

[Treetop]

Why do you think Trump is a narcissist?

Hes certainly not as bad as many, he can give self deprecating jokes for instance.


"Great minds think similar thoughts."

We all say this when someone agrees with us. I find the great minds are usually thinking things others didnt notice myself though.

[Treetop]

For any who missed it, this story cracked me up. Im not even sure if this is a great source, I just skimmed the first link after a search and it seemed ok.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... A8DiO.html