Does anybody do this as a business or a job?

[SkinsFan0521]

I'm a newbie here, but I've been following the idea of copper penny sorting for about a year now...

I'm just wondering if anybody on here does this full time as a business? I know that the portlandmint.com guy (sorry, don't know his username) is on here and that's obviously a business, but I was wondering if there was anybody else?

I'm thinking of getting into the copper sorting pretty big time and was just wondering if anybody else has experience with it? I've spent the past several years selling various PMs as a side business, but I'm thinking of taking this a bit further. If any of you do have experience in large-scale penny sorting, I'd love to hear about your experiences and tips!

The one thing that I'm waiting to find out is about the possibility of ordering /depositing directly to/from Brinks or Loomis. I know that it's possible, but I have no idea about the fees and the details about all of it. One of the big questions (besides the fees of course) is about if it's "safe" to deposit/withdraw from the same company? Is it the same as needing a buy bank and a dump bank or doesn't it matter? I've read online (not anything official, just read it somewhere) that when Brinks gets change sent to them, they just send it directly out to the regional FED bank. If that's true, that would eliminate the possibility of me getting back my coins that I just sorted because they'd be making the trip back to the fed and not just being re-packaged and sent back to me next week. Anybody have any knowledge on how this process works?

Thanks in advance for any help or tips that you may have!!

[JadeDragon]

Not me (I'm in real estate) but the leading lights of copper are all here.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

I don't do it as a job.. though I did sell some at a coin show I set up at today, and I have been known to get a little sorting done in my spare time. Heck, I even sold that Adam (Highroller) guy from the Portland Mint his first Ryedale. It was interesting that one of my customers at the coin show today mentioned the Portland Mint.. that website is getting a lot of interest.

I have to question what you heard about coin processors shipping everything they get to the Fed. Since their business is coin packaging, why would they go to the extra expense of shipping the coin out and paying to have it shipped in so they could reroll it and deliver it to the banks? Wouldn't it make more since for them to just reroll whatever came in? I hear they have even more equipment than I do.

[SkinsFan0521]

I don't do it as a job.. though I did sell some at a coin show I set up at today, and I have been known to get a little sorting done in my spare time. Heck, I even sold that Adam (Highroller) guy from the Portland Mint his first Ryedale. It was interesting that one of my customers at the coin show today mentioned the Portland Mint.. that website is getting a lot of interest.

I have to question what you heard about coin processors shipping everything they get to the Fed. Since their business is coin packaging, why would they go to the extra expense of shipping the coin out and paying to have it shipped in so they could reroll it and deliver it to the banks? Wouldn't it make more since for them to just reroll whatever came in? I hear they have even more equipment than I do.

Yeah, the Portland Mint is on the first page of results when you search for something like "copper penny" in google. Don't remember the exact search term, but it's high up there for a pretty common search.

I also very much question about what I heard in regards to the processors shipping to the FED. I totally agree with you that it seems to just cut into their profits unnecessarily. However, the only thing that I can think of is that when they (Brinks/Loomis/etc) deal with Banks, they're actually just the middleman between the FED & the banks. So, technically, when the banks send them coinage, they must have to send that same amount back to the FED to deposit on behalf of the bank. But, does this mean that they send the exact bags that they get from the bank to the FED or do they just take some out of their inventory and ship it to the FED? That's the big question, in my opinion. That would be a big problem if they could keep my coins circulating back to me. If that's the case, I'll have to look into using one as a buy and one as a dump, but my guess is that will become too expensive very quickly.

Thanks for the replies, I do appreciate being challenged on any of my ideas because I'd like to not miss anything! haha

[misteroman]

There was a guy on the old site that did it for a living I believe. Supplied all the banks in the Syracuse and rochester area with coins after he sorted them. Posted pics as well. Nice setup he had. Name was lumofny but haven't seen him on here yet

[SkinsFan0521]

There was a guy on the old site that did it for a living I believe. Supplied all the banks in the Syracuse and rochester area with coins after he sorted them. Posted pics as well. Nice setup he had. Name was lumofny but haven't seen him on here yet

uh-oh... I'm only about an hour or so from Syracuse! Hope he's not already taking all my supplies before I even get started! haha

[AGCoinHunter]

There was a guy on the old site that did it for a living I believe. Supplied all the banks in the Syracuse and rochester area with coins after he sorted them. Posted pics as well. Nice setup he had. Name was lumofny but haven't seen him on here yet

Did he drive an armoured hummer around town?

[inflationhawk]

There was a guy on the old site that did it for a living I believe. Supplied all the banks in the Syracuse and rochester area with coins after he sorted them. Posted pics as well. Nice setup he had. Name was lumofny but haven't seen him on here yet

That's awesome!! Something to aspire to. He should have a page dedicated to him or something on Realcent.

[highroller4321]

Yes, there are a few people/companies around here that do this as a business. I beleive I am the only one that does it as a full time job. Everyone else has another job and just ties in the sorting around that.

If you are wanting to use an armored get ready to pay the fees! You will pay anywhere from $1-$2.50 per $50 zinc bag you deposit. Also unless you become a "big fish" and get security clearance you most likely won't be able to go directly to the armored yourself.


It is best to have 1 dump location and another pick up location. No, matter how you do it you are going to run into some of the coins you already sorted. Most of the coin will get deposited and pulled from the same coin fed depot.

[SkinsFan0521]

Yes, there are a few people/companies around here that do this as a business. I beleive I am the only one that does it as a full time job. Everyone else has another job and just ties in the sorting around that.

If you are wanting to use an armored get ready to pay the fees! You will pay anywhere from $1-$2.50 per $50 zinc bag you deposit. Also unless you become a "big fish" and get security clearance you most likely won't be able to go directly to the armored yourself.


It is best to have 1 dump location and another pick up location. No, matter how you do it you are going to run into some of the coins you already sorted. Most of the coin will get deposited and pulled from the same coin fed depot.

So, you're saying that the fees are $1-$2.5 per $50 bag that I deposit with Brinks/Loomis/etc., but what about when buying them? Can you give me some sort of an idea on what to expect in fees on that end? Also, is that $1-$2.50 dependent on volume or that's just a flat fee?

Also, I thought that I read somewhere that it might be possible to pay a monthly fee of some sort for the armored car service rather than pay per bag or per $. Is that not an option that you're aware of?

I'd be happy to discuss this stuff over email if you'd prefer, but I imagine that it would be to the benefit of everybody if it was posted here for all to see.

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it!!

[highroller4321]

Yes, there are a few people/companies around here that do this as a business. I beleive I am the only one that does it as a full time job. Everyone else has another job and just ties in the sorting around that.

If you are wanting to use an armored get ready to pay the fees! You will pay anywhere from $1-$2.50 per $50 zinc bag you deposit. Also unless you become a "big fish" and get security clearance you most likely won't be able to go directly to the armored yourself.


It is best to have 1 dump location and another pick up location. No, matter how you do it you are going to run into some of the coins you already sorted. Most of the coin will get deposited and pulled from the same coin fed depot.

So, you're saying that the fees are $1-$2.5 per $50 bag that I deposit with Brinks/Loomis/etc., but what about when buying them? Can you give me some sort of an idea on what to expect in fees on that end? Also, is that $1-$2.50 dependent on volume or that's just a flat fee?

Also, I thought that I read somewhere that it might be possible to pay a monthly fee of some sort for the armored car service rather than pay per bag or per $. Is that not an option that you're aware of?

I'd be happy to discuss this stuff over email if you'd prefer, but I imagine that it would be to the benefit of everybody if it was posted here for all to see.

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it!!

You could get a weekly pick up and/or drop off but thats service is going to cost you. Depending on your location and the rates you are probably looking at at least $100 a week. The armored won't deliver to a household address and you most likely will have a hard time getting loose coin because thats not a normal order. It all depends on the contract you set up with your armored and the arrangement you have with the bank. On top of that you still might have to pay the deposit fees. Typically there is just a flat fee but if you do a LOT of volume they might give you a slight discount. There may be a fee for ordering coin as well. It all depends on how you have things set up with your bank.

[SkinsFan0521]

Yes, there are a few people/companies around here that do this as a business. I beleive I am the only one that does it as a full time job. Everyone else has another job and just ties in the sorting around that.

If you are wanting to use an armored get ready to pay the fees! You will pay anywhere from $1-$2.50 per $50 zinc bag you deposit. Also unless you become a "big fish" and get security clearance you most likely won't be able to go directly to the armored yourself.


It is best to have 1 dump location and another pick up location. No, matter how you do it you are going to run into some of the coins you already sorted. Most of the coin will get deposited and pulled from the same coin fed depot.

So, you're saying that the fees are $1-$2.5 per $50 bag that I deposit with Brinks/Loomis/etc., but what about when buying them? Can you give me some sort of an idea on what to expect in fees on that end? Also, is that $1-$2.50 dependent on volume or that's just a flat fee?

Also, I thought that I read somewhere that it might be possible to pay a monthly fee of some sort for the armored car service rather than pay per bag or per $. Is that not an option that you're aware of?

I'd be happy to discuss this stuff over email if you'd prefer, but I imagine that it would be to the benefit of everybody if it was posted here for all to see.

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it!!

You could get a weekly pick up and/or drop off but thats service is going to cost you. Depending on your location and the rates you are probably looking at at least $100 a week. The armored won't deliver to a household address and you most likely will have a hard time getting loose coin because thats not a normal order. It all depends on the contract you set up with your armored and the arrangement you have with the bank. On top of that you still might have to pay the deposit fees. Typically there is just a flat fee but if you do a LOT of volume they might give you a slight discount. There may be a fee for ordering coin as well. It all depends on how you have things set up with your bank.

So, I'm assuming that you have an agreement with an armored company, right? If not, how the heck are you getting enough volume? haha

You're thinking that a weekly pickup/dropoff would be something like $100/week PLUS paying the per bag fees? That would quickly add up to enough to not make it worth my time. If it was one or the other, it'd still be worth it based on the numbers that I've put together. I'm thinking that a good estimate of profits (BEFORE armored car/bank fees) would be 10% of the face value of all pennies sorted ($500 per $5k of mixed pennies sorted based on a net sell price of 1.5x fv after fees, shipping, etc.). Then, that can be easily scaled up with more volume and Ryedales

I'm not trying to get you to divulge any information that you don't want to, but I'm just wondering how you can be profitable with all those fees? I'm assuming that you've got some other arrangement or fees than we're talking about in this thread, right? Obviously, I need to talk to the companies to see what I can set up with them, but I'm just trying to get an idea of what to expect from somebody who's had experience with it.

Thanks again, your information is really helpful!

[highroller4321]

Pick up fees and possible deposit fees. If you are going to deposit loose directly at the armored, through your bank, the armored has to weigh the coin to verify that its the correct amount. Unless your bank is going to eat those fees than yes you will have to pay for that as well.


If you are planning on useing a ryedale its going to take you 28 hours, if there are no jams, to sort $5000 face value.


I am not going to divulge the arrangements and set ups I have. All I can do is offer my knowledge of how coin moves around "the system."

[SkinsFan0521]

Yeah, that's totally fine. I don't expect you to tell me how you actually work your business. I'm mostly just interested in the details of armored car transportation, fees, and if I really needed to actually work with two different companies to make sure I get as few of my own coins back.

As far as using the Ryedale and the time... yeah, I figured 30-35hrs per $5k for one machine. Then, obviously, you can have multiple machines each running $5k of pennies in that same 30-35hr period. This would definitely be necessary for it to become worth it as an actual full-time business. I figure that for it to be worth the time & effort, I'll need to have a minimum of 4 Ryedales running $5k pennies each per week. So, (again, BEFORE armored/bank fees) that would be somewhere around $2k profit per week based on the 1.5x face net price. Then, the issue is if there is actually a market to sell that many coppers ($4k fv of coppers per week). And this is all dependent on an average of 20% coppers.

So, in theory, it seems plausible, but I'm just not sure that it will continue to scale up like that or that I'll be able to consistently pull 20% coppers. haha

[SkinsFan0521]

Is there a larger, more industrial sorter that separates coppers from zincs? The largest volume machine that I know of is the Ryedale. I imagine that if another machine does exist, it costs many times the price of the Ryedale, but I was just wondering?

Thanks again for all the help!

[aloneibreak]

Then, the issue is if there is actually a market to sell that many coppers ($4k fv of coppers per week).

that might end up being the hardest part...

[highroller4321]

Is there a larger, more industrial sorter that separates coppers from zincs? The largest volume machine that I know of is the Ryedale. I imagine that if another machine does exist, it costs many times the price of the Ryedale, but I was just wondering?

Thanks again for all the help!

Yes, there are industrial sorters out there.

[inflationhawk]

Doing this as a full time effort and expecting it to pay the bills is probably not that realistic. The ability to sell that many coins on a regular basis just doesn't seem likely. Maybe its possible for one or two people out there with extensive connections to the banking industry, but not to the ordinary person. I view this penny sorting thing as more of a hobby. I will hoard everything I find. I don't think the payoff is there right now to sell. Too much work and effort to get the volume to make a big score at today's prices. In 10-20 years or more though, the copper hoard you make today could pay off well. I suspect the inflation in base metals will outpace the cost of living.

[SkinsFan0521]

Is there a larger, more industrial sorter that separates coppers from zincs? The largest volume machine that I know of is the Ryedale. I imagine that if another machine does exist, it costs many times the price of the Ryedale, but I was just wondering?

Thanks again for all the help!

Yes, there are industrial sorters out there.

Any chance you're interested in letting me know more information about those??

[SkinsFan0521]

Then, the issue is if there is actually a market to sell that many coppers ($4k fv of coppers per week).

that might end up being the hardest part...

I agree. I know that a lot sell on ebay and a bunch on the forum here and I'd have a website as well, but I just don't know how realistic it would be to sell $4k in face value every week. That's 40 $100 fv packages a week. It may be possible, but seems like it'd definitely be a challenge.

[SkinsFan0521]

Doing this as a full time effort and expecting it to pay the bills is probably not that realistic. The ability to sell that many coins on a regular basis just doesn't seem likely. Maybe its possible for one or two people out there with extensive connections to the banking industry, but not to the ordinary person. I view this penny sorting thing as more of a hobby. I will hoard everything I find. I don't think the payoff is there right now to sell. Too much work and effort to get the volume to make a big score at today's prices. In 10-20 years or more though, the copper hoard you make today could pay off well. I suspect the inflation in base metals will outpace the cost of living.

You're probably right about inflation and this doesn't mean that I wouldn't keep any for myself.

You just need to remember that wherever there is a hobby, there is a business market. The problem is that it may not be big enough to make it a profitable venture, but there's always a market and somebody needs to be there to fill that void. Look at Ryedale...

[PennyPauper]

Then, the issue is if there is actually a market to sell that many coppers ($4k fv of coppers per week).

that might end up being the hardest part...

I agree. I know that a lot sell on ebay and a bunch on the forum here and I'd have a website as well, but I just don't know how realistic it would be to sell $4k in face value every week. That's 40 $100 fv packages a week. It may be possible, but seems like it'd definitely be a challenge.

Harder to dump or deposit 12k in zinc per week.

[inflationhawk]

Yep, goes back to the pick and shovel approach to the gold rush. There's always the outlier though. I'm happy with making it a hobby with the POTENTIAL for eventual profit, plus I'm finding lots of pretty cool old coins.

[SkinsFan0521]

Harder to dump or deposit 12k in zinc per week.

I agree that getting and dumping supply is the biggest issue. But, if I get the supply coming in, there will be a way to get it going out. It's all about the armored car service (at least I think...with no real knowledge! haha)

[SkinsFan0521]

Yep, goes back to the pick and shovel approach to the gold rush. There's always the outlier though. I'm happy with making it a hobby with the POTENTIAL for eventual profit, plus I'm finding lots of pretty cool old coins.

Yup, totally agree. Either way, I plan to by a Ryedale and stack copper for myself. It's just in thinking about the concept, I started to realize that there may very well be a market for a LARGE volume sorter/dealer. And if there's a market for it, I'd be interested in pursuing it, so I'd like to do my due diligence to see for sure one way or the other.