Composition of US Nickels

[Derek.Sheriff]

First, I want to say I'm not planning on melting down any nickels, I'm just curious about how the physical composition of nickels could affect their value in the future if the melt ban was ever lifted. I understand that Nickels have a 75% copper core encased in a 25% nickel. Is this a fact? I've also heard that it may be possible to mechanically separate the nickel from the copper. Is there any truth to this and if so, how is it done? Thanks!

[68Camaro]

No, it's an alloy. The two are intermixed.

[hejira11]

I an curious if any metal gets destroyed when/if a U.S. Nickel coin is melted. I know in the U.S. Cent the zinc is lost due to the difference in melting points between it and copper. Is that the case with the nickel?

[68Camaro]

(You can control the zinc in a penny if it's smelted in an inert atmosphere (it can ignite in oxygen above 1665F) and/or under pressure.)

Takes more to melt Ni, but Ni and Cu are very closely matched in boiling points, so less of an issue.

Copper
Melting Point = 1,083°Celsius / 1,981°Fahrenheit
Boiling Point 2567.0 °C / 4652.6 °F

Zinc
Melting Point: 419.58 °C / 787.24396 °F
Boiling Point: 907.0 °C / 1664.6 °F

Nickel
Melting Point: 1453.0 °C / 2647.4 °F
Boiling Point: 2732.0 °C / 4949.6 °F

[hejira11]

Thanks 68Camero!

[Derek.Sheriff]

One reason a guy I know gave for hoarding pennies rather than nickels was that he said if the melt ban is ever lifted (I'd think they'd be more valuable as legal tender coins to be traded on the secondary market), melting copper pennies would be a much easier process than melting nickels and separating the nickel from the copper. Thoughts?

[68Camaro]

Melting cupro-nickel certainly takes more energy than copper-zinc.

That assumes one would want to melt it in the first place; there is a scenario where the coins would retain value as coins.

[68Camaro]

For the very few that haven't nodded off to sleep, there is a high-strength (actually moderate strength, as "high" depends on your frame of reference) corrosion-resistant marine alloy that is very near the composition of the US penny as far as the copper/nickel content but with some small amounts of other alloying elements added (5% manganese plus smaller amounts of aluminum, iron, chromium, niobium, etc). It has a listed melt point <1100C, which is essentially the melt point of the copper - the other elementals in the alloy wouldn't technically be "melted" but would appear as mushy solids within the molten copper. At this point we're very deep into the weeds of metallurgy, further than I personally go.

http://www.langleyalloys.co.uk/PDF/MARI ... e%20A4.pdf

[VWBEAMER]

I guessing if the lift ban is melted, I think maybe 68 Camaro was hitting on this, that the 95/5 penny alloy could be used as is for a lot of things, I'm guessing Nickel maybe the same. I'm sure there are a lot of alloys that use both copper and Nickel.

Also if we have hyperinflation, but not a complete breakdown in society, the Nickels could become the main currency.

The worst thing that happens with US Nickels is nothing happens and you tuck tail and cash them back in at the bank....which is pretty good as far a speculative investments go.

[Derek.Sheriff]

Not only have I not fallen asleep, I'm wondering how a layman like me might learn MORE about metallurgy. Can someone like me turn my interest in metals into a part time job? I earn a pretty good living in the private security business, but I have to confess that this whole experience of becoming an urban silver/nickel/penny prospector has aroused my interest in metals (precious, base, scrap or otherwise), as not only a store of value but as one among many potential streams of income. Am I crazy? Can people earn at least a part time income by collecting and trading metals?

[Derek.Sheriff]

VWBEAMER,

My biggest fear would be to have hoarded a ton of nickels and for there to be only mild inflation, long term. In that case I would pay a big opportunity cost for what I stored in nickels but could have invested elsewhere. Unfortunately, I doubt there will only be mild inflation...

It seems only logical that people would rather have a legal tender coin made out of nickel and copper than the separated nickel and copper itself in some melted down form. When do you think people will start trading nickels on Ebay for more than their face value?

[68Camaro]

Not only have I not fallen asleep, I'm wondering how a layman like me might learn MORE about metallurgy. Can someone like me turn my interest in metals into a part time job? I earn a pretty good living in the private security business, but I have to confess that this whole experience of becoming an urban silver/nickel/penny prospector has aroused my interest in metals (precious, base, scrap or otherwise), as not only a store of value but as one among many potential streams of income. Am I crazy? Can people earn at least a part time income by collecting and trading metals?

I'm sure advanced recycling dealers come to learn a lot of basics about alloys, if they don't already have a degree in something related (chemisty materials engineering/science, metallurgy, etc). If you've got the ability to read and comprehend technical literature, you can self-teach much of it. My degrees are in solid mechanics; I had to study something about materials,and metals, and I became a specialist in composites, but I'm not a metallurgist; I know just enough to be dangerous so for details of anything critical I ask someone in a specialty. To your question, I'm sure someone with the right knowledge and connections can make a good living at it, but I couldn't tell you how to best break into the field.

[biglouddrunk]

I had the exprience of watching the factory I worked at get auctioned off and torn apart during the 06 metal boom. I'll tell you what most of those scrappers did have many teeth in there mouth, but certainly had a lot of money. They did not know much about metallurgy, but give them a blow torch and an out of industrial equipment any they could find what parts were stainless pretty fast. I knew of two guys who bought one of our old lines for 3 grand and sold the stainless for 50K. These going out of business factories are goldmines. However it seems only those toothless people I referred to seem to have the experience in dismantling the equipment. A couple of those old coots were able to figure out what grade of stainless was used just by what equipment it was taken from.