Trump Tariff Thread

Feel free to post your economic, business and political news, reports, and predictions concerning the U.S., Canadian, and world economy here. Please keep threads and posts on-topic.

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:41 pm

U.S. trade deficit is getting bigger - despite president's promises, tariffs

11/27/18

Greg Owens wants to sell his company’s stainless-steel flatware to customers in Britain and Australia. Only one thing stands in his way: the strength of the U.S. dollar.

Owens’ company, Liberty Tabletop, the last stainless steel flatware maker in the United States, produces its distinctive offerings in a century-old brick building in Sherrill, New York. Each time Owens converts the sales price of competing products in those overseas markets into dollars, he flinches.

“When I’m at a 20 or 30 percent disadvantage versus my competitors’ prices, I have no chance — and that’s pretty much what’s happening,” he said. “If that were somehow to be corrected, it would go a long way to helping us be more competitive.”

Owens’ frustration stems from President Donald Trump’s approach to shrinking the U.S. trade deficit. Trump promised during the 2016 campaign that he would act against China for manipulating the yuan’s value, and he repeatedly has called the dollar “too strong.” But he has taken no direct action on currencies, instead relying on tariffs to battle trade barriers that he says hurt American companies.

Trump’s “America First” stance has yet to make a dent in the merchandise trade deficit, which hit a monthly record in September. Amid signs that the rising dollar is depressing U.S. exports — and muting hiring growth in a handful of industrial states — some labor and business groups are calling on the president to take action to weaken the U.S. currency. Yet his economic policies are making it stronger.

“The trade deficit is a function of the dollar, not a function of bad trade practices abroad,” said Brad Setser, who was a White House and Treasury Department economist in the Obama administration. “But the basic problem the administration faces is, its own tax policy and fiscal policy is driving the dollar up.”

The dollar has risen more than 7 percent this year against the currencies of major U.S. trading partners, part of a 22 percent gain since the end of 2013, according to the Bank of International Settlements index.

A stronger dollar acts as a price increase for U.S. goods sold abroad while making imported products less expensive for Americans. The greenback’s effect can be glimpsed in Liberty Tabletop’s near-exclusive focus on domestic sales as well as government statistics showing that, excluding oil, U.S. exports of goods in September were lower than they were four years ago.

Currency values have had an especially pronounced effect on U.S.-China trade, which accounts for nearly half of the annual $800 billion U.S. deficit in goods trade. For more than a decade after joining the World Trade Organization in 2001, Beijing intervened in foreign exchange markets to keep the yuan artificially low. That boosted Chinese exports, often at the expense of American manufacturers, and contributed to the hollowing out of Midwestern industrial states that Trump won in 2016, economists say.

Between 2001 and 2017, Chinese trade destroyed 3.4 million American jobs, three-quarters of them in manufacturing, said economist Robert Scott of the union-backed Economic Policy Institute.

“The single most important cause has been currency manipulation and currency misalignment,” said Scott, who said other U.S. trading partners, such as Japan, the European Union and South Korea, also have benefited from artificially low currency values.

Other economists say the trade deficit is linked to broad economic forces, such as a relatively low national savings rate.

China no longer intervenes as routinely in currency markets, doing so only to prevent overly swift or destabilizing moves in the yuan, economists say. As a result, the People’s Bank of China’s dollar reserves are 9.7 percent, or $124.2 billion, lower than they were in January 2014.

Still, since April, the yuan has dropped 9.5 percent against the dollar, eroding the 10 percent and 25 percent tariffs that Trump has imposed on Chinese goods.

<snip>

https://www.thegazette.com/subject/news ... s-20181127

This article claims that we aren't yet feeling the full effects of the 10% - 25% cost increases brought on by the tariffs because the US dollar is [artificially] strengthening against the Yuan, offsetting much of the cost increases. If you believe we are inflating our currency, building another bubble, and heading for another eventual correction/crash/recession (seems likely), the difficulties many US companies are already experiencing as a result of the US tariffs on China (and the retaliatory Chinese tariffs on the US) will surely multiply when the currencies start moving the other way.
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:49 pm

Department of Commerce has added manpower to handle Trump's tariffs

11/27/18

President Trump’s trade policy has been a source of growth for at least one industry: The government — specifically, the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security and International Trade Administration.

Since the administration has instituted its tariffs on steel, aluminum and Chinese products, those agencies have had to bulk up their staffs in order to handle requests from corporations to have their products excluded from the levies.

Or to put it another way, the Trump administration has had to devote extra manpower to deal with companies that want to avoid paying the tariffs that it has created.

The Commerce Department currently has an estimated 100 staffers and contractors working on processing exclusion requests, according to information provided to the Washington Examiner by the administration. In the last month alone, the Bureau of Industry and Security has hired 18 additional contractors while the International Trade Administration has hired 52.

They have had plenty to do. As of Nov. 12, 48,602 steel and 6,504 aluminum exclusion requests had been filed. Of those, the department has approved 12,356 requests regarding steel, or about one-in-four. It has approved about 830 ones for aluminum, or about one-in-eight.

A Commerce Department staffer described the situation as more or less unprecedented: Its staff just hasn’t had to handle this kind of work prior to Trump taking office, because his trade policies are vastly different than the prior administrations.

The administration nevertheless anticipated that these departments would need to be expanded. In the White House’s proposed fiscal Year 2019 budget for the department, it requested an additional $7.1 million for the BIS so it could conduct “investigations identifying the impacts imports may have on U.S. national security” among another reasons.

“The department has been flooded with requests and is completely short-staffed so they’ve had to bring in contractors — and also volunteers from other federal agencies,” said Richard Mojica, a trade policy lawyer with the D.C.-based firm Miller & Chevalier Chartered, who represents companies before the department.

<snip>

The process for getting exclusions from the metals tariffs is completely different from that for requesting exclusions from the administration’s other major tariffs, which cover $250 billion worth of Chinese goods. Those are being handled by the U.S. Trade Representative’s Office, a separate agency, which has yet to grant any exclusions. It has taken in requests for them regarding the first $50 billion in tariffs but has made no decisions so far and hasn’t set up a process for making requests regarding the remaining $200 billion — much to the alarm of the business community.

For the steel and aluminum ones, it is usually not as simple as just asking for an exclusion and waiting until the department issues a decision. Other domestic producers can, and usually do, object to any exclusion requests. The submitter can then object to the objections and both wait for the department to rule on request.

Those involved described the process as a maze. Initially, the department didn’t even have a process for petitioners to respond to objections from third parties. “You put in the application, the domestic industry would oppose and there would be nothing else to do. Commerce would just reject it,” said a Washington-based attorney who handles applications for companies. That has since been fixed to allow the petitioner to object to the objection but it still means the decision can be significantly delayed.

The sheer number of requests that the department receives is somewhat misleading, industry lawyers note, because even minor variations between otherwise identical products, such as a marginal difference in size, can force the industry to file separate requests.

Mojica said a major problem is that many of the department’s own employees, at least in initially, didn’t know enough about the specifics of the steel and aluminum industry to evaluate when a request was reasonable. The department was obligated to create a training program on this, using input from the metal industry.

They have been learning as they go. A Freedom of Information Act request by Minnesota Public Radio’s Marketplace program revealed in November that the department had compiled a 108-page manual to guide the staffers through the process. This was the 16th edition of the manual. The first edition was produced as recently as May and was just 24 pages.

“There’s a big concern in the industry that these people don’t know what they are doing," Mojica said.

<snip>

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poli ... ?_amp=true
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:46 pm

Somebody needs to draw Trump as super hero "Tariff Man" :lol:

trump-twitter.JPG
trump-twitter.JPG (26.1 KiB) Viewed 5800 times

But really this just makes it sound like tariffs are all about generating revenue for the federal government rather than "bringing jobs back," which makes sense, because that's what they really are. He slipped and forgot to pretend it's good for working class Americans ;)
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:50 pm

It will be great for working class americans long term future if China buckles on even half of what he is pushing for. Ignoring the issue is rather nutty honestly. We dont have many other peaceful tools to try to push for change. We have more leverage here.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:51 pm

The threat of tariffs also seems to have gotten us better deals with other nations, not into law yet but I expect it will be hard to vote down better deals and get re elected.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:48 pm

trump-twitter-2.JPG
trump-twitter-2.JPG (18.7 KiB) Viewed 5797 times

I wonder if he got it back down to the pre-trade-war 25% ? The "current" 40% China taxes US cars was only recently enacted, and in retaliation for Trump's tariffs on China :lol: And before this all started we sold ~6 cars TO China for every 1 car we imported FROM them. Why mess with that? :roll:
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:00 pm

natsb88 wrote: And before this all started we sold ~6 cars TO China for every 1 car we imported FROM them. Why mess with that? :roll:


:lol: Almost all of those were made in china though, and didnt face the tariffs they have. This is also one of the less significant aspects to our goals here. I am a bit confused why this bothers you when you claim to want freer trade though?
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:30 pm

Treetop wrote:
natsb88 wrote: And before this all started we sold ~6 cars TO China for every 1 car we imported FROM them. Why mess with that? :roll:


:lol: Almost all of those were made in china though, and didnt face the tariffs they have. This is also one of the less significant aspects to our goals here. I am a bit confused why this bothers you when you claim to want freer trade though?

I'm a bit confused by your question. Putting tariffs on things bothers me. Trump's tariff policies prompted a retaliatory increase in Chinese tariffs on US goods, and then he brags about getting those Chinese tarriffs "reduced" back to where they were when we started as though it's a win for the US. That's like Obama's policies contributing to a spike in unemployment, and then Obama bragging about the lowest unemployment numbers in years when we barely recovered back to where we started. They both created the problems and then brag about having the solution :roll:
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:40 pm

:roll: Nope, hes trying to get them to take off more of the 25%. The current agreement is temporary until the actual deal is worked out and has drastically more important goals.

I wonder if they keep social credit scores on foreigners as well? If so Ill bet china gives you a good rating for not wanting to pressure them to play fairly.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby johnbrickner » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:00 pm

No worries. We can all speak Mandarin, right?
johnbrickner
Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:03 pm

Scott adams talks about this often though. The way different segments of the populations believe different versions of events as if it wwas different "movies" they are watching. To me its obvious this is a temporary change China agreed to in the mean time as a real deal is worked on. In your movie its obvious he was bragging about nothing after causing them to have raise tariffs on a tiny tiny fraction of the cars they buy from US companies. In my movie its imperative we have fairer trade with a rising super power that now runs its culture like a dystopian sci fi movie. In your movie its obvious things are working well enough now because you personally benefit from their lack of enviro controls, worker protections, drastically lower wages and the like. In my moie its clear the Us holds a prominent place economically because of our intellectual property, and its worth trying to get china to be better on this issue. In your movie, I mean Im not trying to put words in your mouth but apparently its not big enough of a deal we should care.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:12 pm

LOL just looked it up. The tweets trump made directly before and after the one you linked outright said what I just said. You took one small segment out of context then rolled your eyes wondering why I didnt see it the way you did.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:08 pm

Treetop wrote:LOL just looked it up. The tweets trump made directly before and after the one you linked outright said what I just said. You took one small segment out of context then rolled your eyes wondering why I didnt see it the way you did.

Not at all. It's a temporary agreement to reduce Chinese tariffs on select US goods back to close to where they were before Trump started a trade war, and Trump is bragging about it as a win, and you are buying his spin. If they don't come to a trade agreement, the Chinese tariffs on those select US goods go right back to 40%, so it's nowhere close to a guarantee of even getting back to the pre-trade-war level of US exports. Trump and his supporters want praise for "negotiating" temporary relief to a problem Trump created.

Image

Treetop wrote:Scott adams talks about this often though. The way different segments of the populations believe different versions of events as if it wwas different "movies" they are watching.

Yep. I am watching the movie that involves objective metrics and cause-and-effect, not the movie where emotional nationalism trumps macroeconomics.

Treetop wrote:In my movie its imperative we have fairer trade with a rising super power that now runs its culture like a dystopian sci fi movie.

Your movie is about 20 years behind the times and playing backwards.

Treetop wrote:In my moie its clear the Us holds a prominent place economically because of our intellectual property, and its worth trying to get china to be better on this issue.

You have yet to make a coherent case for how tariffs on Chinese imports will protect US intellectual property. You just keep insisting that they will. What is the mechanism for this? China copies our designs and sells products back to us, but also to many other markets. You think we can tariff them into submission? That US consumers paying more taxes to the US federal government on Chinese goods is going to coerce China to stop making and selling infringing goods when there are lots of other places they sell them to? What is the enforcement mechanism? We can't even accurately inspect everything that comes onto our own shores, are we going to station US customs agents at all of China's outgoing ports to make sure they aren't selling anything that a US company might have a US patent/trademark on to anybody else? :?

Image
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:50 pm

natsb88 wrote:Not at all. It's a temporary agreement to reduce Chinese tariffs on select US goods back to close to where they were before Trump started a trade war, and Trump is bragging about it as a win, and you are buying his spin. If they don't come to a trade agreement, the Chinese tariffs on those select US goods go right back to 40%, so it's nowhere close to a guarantee of even getting back to the pre-trade-war level of US exports. Trump and his supporters want praise for "negotiating" temporary relief to a problem Trump created.


When did he do this? It absolutely wasnt in the series of tweets you took one portion out of. I havent seen this happen in the news I follow.

Yep. I am watching the movie that involves objective metrics and cause-and-effect, not the movie where emotional nationalism trumps macroeconomics.

:lol: Thing is Im doing the same. We would be extremely short sighted to continue to let china trade the way they do and we happen to have leverage over them. Its really simple honestly.

You have yet to make a coherent case for how tariffs on Chinese imports will protect US intellectual property. You just keep insisting that they will.

I have already. As have others Ive seen on this forum. It is being used as a tool to get them to change other policy. It hurts them more then it hurts us. It might not work but it is better then ignoring it. Obviously they can and will sell to others lol. Irrelevant. They have razor thing margins on many things they do. They need us many more multiples then we need them. If they refuse wed be better off nottrading with them ast all honestly.

What I find amusing here is as I see it all your arguments are emotional, and you believe Im just a mindless brainwashed retard apparently chanting Trump in my sleep. I do find it odd you made excuses for TPP which would have had US law decided on by international courts. While I want a better position for the US in trade. I dont see why we should engage with a powerful nation that robs us blind while under cutting us in ways we cannot compete with if we want decent wages and clean air and water, as well as basic worker protections. Where does ignorance at that level lead? Meanwhile they militarize an area of the world that a massive amount of goods come through and act like we are the aggressors for even looking at what they are doing or floating by in international waters. These are not friends. We should not build them up in any way, and certainly not to make or save a few bucks if they dont want to play fair.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby johnbrickner » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:14 pm

All kidding aside about learning Mandarin, we'd better be doing whatever we can to leverage whatever a level playing field as we can get. Even if it take tariffs or starting a strategic plan of our own which will doubtfully ever happen in my eyes. China however, has a long-term strategic plan for economic domination and they appear to be winning.

Most of these countries I have not verified but each one I have checked, verified as signing on to the "New Silk Road" or "One Belt, One Road" and now called "Belt Road Initiative (BRI)": http://china-trade-research.hktdc.com/b ... 0A36I0.htm

This is a list I estimate to be 90 countries and China says it's now 100: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-01/ ... n/10562374

The BRI is backed up with the Made in China 2025 Strategic Plan: https://multimedia.scmp.com/news/china/ ... index.html That includes placing China as the world's leading manufacturer beyond 2025.

Finally, Panama has signed bilateral cooperation agreements on BRI, bilateral negotiations on the China-Panama free trade agreement (FTA), and launched a direct flight from Beijing to Panama City and much more. They have signed a dozen of agreements in trade, investment, maritime transport, civil aviation, finance, agriculture, quality inspection, tourism, and infrastructure, demonstrating more than just political willingness to seek win-win results and common development. https://www.dw.com/en/china-and-panama- ... a-46569583

Finally to top it off yesterday, Panama awarded $1.4 B to a Chinese group to build a bridge over the Canal. China's investment into Panama is just starting. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 950532.cms

Google up "Panama China news" and you get all this plus more.

Google up "United States Panama news" and you get the first four people charged with fraud regarding the Panama Papers.

Who runs Barter Town the Canal? It ain't US anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU Will we be living this when China controls the middle eastern oil fields or will we be fighting them to maintain our international oil interests?

Do we know Mandarin yet? Teach your children well as hoping to give them a decent country in the future isn't working.
johnbrickner
Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 2674
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:01 pm

U.S. trade deficit hits 10-year high; job growth slowing

12/6/18

The U.S. trade deficit jumped to a 10-year high in October as soybean exports dropped further and imports of consumer goods rose to a record high, suggesting the Trump administration’s tariff-related measures to shrink the trade gap likely have been ineffective.

Other data on Thursday showed private employers hired fewer workers than expected in November, pointing to a moderation in the pace of job growth. That was reinforced by another report showing a small decline in the number of Americans filing claims for unemployment benefits last week.

The reports added to weak housing and business spending on equipment data in signaling a slowdown in economic growth. Concerns over the health of the economy have roiled financial markets in recent days.

The Commerce Department said the trade deficit increased 1.7 percent to $55.5 billion, the highest level since October 2008. The trade gap has now widened for five straight months. Data for September was revised to show the deficit rising to $54.6 billion instead of the previously reported $54.0 billion.

The politically sensitive goods trade deficit with China surged 7.1 percent to a record $43.1 billion in October.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1O51LQ
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:56 pm

How Trump's trade war kept Russian fish sticks in US school lunchrooms

2/9/19

A trade decision by the Trump administration has inadvertently protected a price advantage enjoyed by Russian-caught fish sold in the US, much of which ends up in fish sticks served to American school children.

<snip>

Russian pollock costs less than its US-caught equivalent. That's helped it gain share of the roughly $200 million US market for frozen pollock, to the point that by 2017, about half the fish sticks served in US school cafeterias were made from fish caught in Russia and pumped with additives in China, according to the Genuine Alaska Pollock Producers, a trade group that represents 14 different seafood companies.

Domestic fish producers thought President Donald Trump would fix all that. The administration's move to slap a 10% tariff last year on thousands of imports from China was supposed to erase the price advantage enjoyed by Russian fish. But instead of fixing the problem, the Trump administration has made things worse for Alaskan fishermen.
Enter the office of the US Trade Representative (USTR), which ended up excluding Russian pollock from the tariffs, preserving its price advantage over domestic-caught fish. On top of that, China's retaliatory tariffs against the US means that Alaska's pollock producers are now subject to an additional 25% tariff, limiting their access to the growing Chinese market.

Sales of American pollock in China nearly doubled between 2016 and 2017, says Pat Shanahan, the program director of the Genuine Alaska Pollock Producers. The industry was expecting even faster expansion in China in the coming years. But the trade war has dashed those hopes.

"The Chinese retaliatory tariffs have essentially closed the Chinese market for Alaska pollock," says Shanahan.


This was apparently unintentional, caused by confusing/overlapping/indistinguishable tariff codes, but demonstrates more unintended negative consequences of implementing protectionist policies.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/07/poli ... St7CUT7RqQ
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:02 am

US trade deficit surges to 10-year high in Dec. vs est of $57.3B

3/6/19

The U.S. trade deficit ballooned in December to a 10-year high of $59.8 billion, well ahead of expectations, despite President Donald Trump's efforts to reduce the number, the Commerce Department reported Wednesday.

Economists surveyed by Reuters had been looking for an increase to $57.3 billion, from November's $50.3 billion, which was revised up $1 billion in the latest count.

The expansion came due to a 2.1 percent increase in imports to $264.9 billion while exports fell 1.9 percent to $205.1 billion.

Slowing global growth is causing a reduction in demand for U.S. goods, while a stronger dollar is also working against the trade balance.

For the entire year, the goods and services shortfall increased by $68.8 billion, or 12.5 percent, to $621 billion as the administration railed against unfair trade practices from its global partners. It was the largest trade gap since 2008. Trump and the White House specifically have targeted China, levying a series of tariffs as it seeks a more level playing field and a stop to the theft of intellectual property.

The goods deficit came to $891.3 billion for the year, the highest on record.

The trade deficit with China in December was $38.7 billion, by far the most of any nation. The next highest was the European Union at $15.8 billion and Mexico at $8.8 billion.

Adjusted for inflation, the goods trade deficit rose $10 billion to a record $91.6 billion in December and likely will weigh on the final calculations for gross domestic product. The first estimate for fourth-quarter GDP was 2.6 percent.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/06/us-trad ... %20deficit
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:23 pm

Trump’s Tariffs Cost Americans $19 Billion in 2018

3/7/19

Economists Warn Against Protectionism

At the time, the University of Chicago polled dozens of America’s top economists on the subject, asking if they believed the tariffs would make Americans better off. Not a single one agreed they would.

Notwithstanding the warnings of economists, the Trump administration continued to raise tariffs on imported goods throughout the duration of 2018, such that some $280 billion of imports were hit with tariff rates ranging between 10 and 50 percent.

In response to America’s move toward protectionist trade policy, countries such as Russia, China, Mexico, and the European Union have imposed retaliatory tariffs on $121 billion worth of US exports.

A year after Trump’s tweet about the ease with which trade wars could be won, economists from Princeton, Columbia, and the Federal Reserve Bank of New York have released an analysis of how Trump’s trade policies have impacted Americans, and the results so far aren’t promising.

American Consumers Pay Tariffs

In addition to the economic toll of the trade war the tariffs caused, they find that the full cost of the tariffs was passed on to US consumers, meaning the tariff hike was effectively a tax hike on all Americans. On top of that, in response to facing less international competition, American businesses have increased their prices.

Link to the paper: http://www.princeton.edu/~reddings/pape ... P13564.pdf


https://fee.org/articles/trump-s-tariff ... n-in-2018/
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Recyclersteve » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:26 am

Nobody has said anything on this thread for a while. And the whole U.S./China tariff subject is one that can get very complicated.

That said, Trump would love to get this resolved soon so that he can have another thing to brag about when running for his second term. The Chinese, on the other hand, would like to have it pushed out past the elections. Why? They figure that Trump is tough to negotiate with and if he loses, the Democratic winner would be easier for the Chinese to negotiate with.

If it does get resolved, I predict that both sides will declare victory regardless of how lopsided the victory may be for the winner. I also predict an abundance of fake news.
Former stock broker w/ ~20 yrs. at one company. Spoke with 100k+ people and traded a lot (long, short, options, margin, extended hours, etc.).

NOTE: ANY stocks I discuss, no matter how compelling, carry risk- often
substantial. If not prepared to buy it multiple times in modest amounts without going overboard (assuming nothing really wrong with the company), you need to learn more about the market and managing risk. Also, please research covered calls (options) and selling short as well.
Recyclersteve
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 4584
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:59 am
Location: Where I Want To Be

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:32 am

Has anyone who agreed with Nate on this changed their minds in the face of this virus outbreak? I had always liked the idea of using tariffs to protect industries we might need during war etc, but now it seems obvious we need to do this for medical supplies and such as well.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Thogey » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:45 am

This is a great review!
If I have the gift of prophesy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to move mountains but do not have love I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned but do not have love it profits me nothing.
User avatar
Thogey
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8505
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:00 pm

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:27 am

Trump's Tariffs Weakened America's Hospitals. Then Coronavirus Hit.

Some of Trump's tariffs hit medical equipment and supplies from China. We need more trade, not less, to be prepared for pandemics.

It hasn't been talked about at any of the White House's almost-daily coronavirus press conferences, but the Trump administration acted twice this month to reduce tariffs on imported medical equipment.

It won't be talked about, of course, because those quiet maneuvers amount to an admission of guilt. President Donald Trump's trade policies made it more difficult and expensive for American hospitals to buy the equipment they needed to confront a pandemic like the one now facing the world.

"In the last two years, Trump's policy has forced China to divert the sales of these products—including protective gear for doctors and nurses and high-tech equipment to monitor patients—from the United States to other markets," says Chad Bown, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics (PIIE), "and now the U.S. medical establishment faces looming trouble importing these necessities from other countries, which may be hoarding them to meet their own health crises."

Before the trade war, tariffs on medical equipment imported from China were low or non-existent. More than a quarter of all medical equipment imported to the U.S. came from China, according to PIIE's data.

Trump's tariffs certainly put a dent in those imports. The first round of tariffs on Chinese imported goods, imposed in July 2018, put a 25 percent import tax on hand sanitizer, patient monitors, thermometers, oxygen concentrators, and more. The subsequent rounds of tariffs, imposed in September 2019, added 15 percent to the cost of imported surgical gloves and other types of medical protective gear.

According to PIIE data, American imports of those Chinese-made medical products fell by 16 percent between 2017 (the last full year before Trump's tariffs) and 2019.

The Trump administration had ample warning that tariffs on imported medical gear and equipment would leave America less prepared for a major public health crisis. At the August 2018 hearings that evaluated the necessity of Trump's proposed China tariffs—hearings that, as I reported at the time, consisted of hundreds of American business owners pleading with the government to spare them from this supposed "protection"—multiple members of the American medical community warned about exactly what is now happening.

"Any disruption to this critical supply chain erodes the healthcare industry's ability to deliver the quality and cost management outcomes that are key policy objectives of the country," Matt Rowan, president of the Health Industry Distributors Association, told the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative at the time.

"These products are essential to protecting healthcare providers and their patients every single day," he continued. "The healthcare products on the proposed list are used widely, throughout healthcare settings and are a critical component of our nation's response to public health emergencies."

At a hearing on additional proposed tariffs in June 2019, more warnings were issued. Lara Simmons, president of Medline Industries, told the tariff committee that it was not possible to quickly find alternative suppliers of many health care items imported from China. That meant hospitals and healthcare providers would have little choice but to pay the higher prices created by tariffs—and, therefore, would likely buy less.

"Starting production in the U.S. or any third country would be a time consuming and expensive process due to the FDA [Food and Drug Administration] regulatory procedure that is required for these products," she said.

Trump's so-called "phase one" trade deal with China resulted in the lifting of a few tariffs, but the tariffs on medical equipment and gear remained in place. That Trump has lifted those tariffs now is good, but not imposing them at all would have been far better.

"It reveals the foolishness of the administration's shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later approach," Scott Lincicome, a trade lawyer and scholar with the Cato Institute, tells Reason. The practical (and obvious) consequences of the tariff policy should have been addressed from the start, he says, like the fact that tariffs created an incentive for hospitals and other importers to rely on their existing inventories and put off making additional purchases in the hopes that the tariffs would be reduced before supplies ran out.

"There was clearly no thought given to how this would actually work in practice," Lincicome says, "and now you're seeing the consequences."

Some on the neo-nationalist right are using the coronavirus outbreak and the stressed supply chains it has caused as evidence that a national industrial policy is necessary to ensure America has adequate supplies to counter a pandemic. But autarky would result in less efficient markets and more expensive products. It would leave America with the same results—higher prices and lower supply—that the tariffs did. That's not a good solution.

We need more free trade, not less, to be better prepared for future pandemics.


https://reason.com/2020/03/17/trumps-ta ... virus-hit/
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby natsb88 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:31 am

Trump's Top Trade Official Says China Tariffs Didn't Harm Coronavirus Preparedness. Don't Buy His Spin.

Robert Lighthizer, head of the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, says tariffs aren't hurting America's response to the virus. He's also lifting those tariffs to help with the response.

The Trump administration ignored the warnings of medical professionals who said hiking tariffs on Chinese imports would reduce America's ability to respond to a public health crisis—like the one the health care system is currently facing.

But amid the COVID-19 outbreak, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer is still trying to defend the Trump administration's actions. After numerous news outlets (Reason among them) reported last week on the disastrous consequences of Trump's trade policy as it relates to the ongoing shortage of coronavirus-fighting medical equipment, Lighthizer took to the pages of The Wall Street Journal to defend the administration's actions. His arguments are misleading at best and, in the end, actually serve as an admission that Trump's anti-trade policies have indeed harmed America's preparedness for an outbreak.

First, Lighthizer points out that "the administration imposed no new tariffs on several key products needed to fight the virus like breathing masks, oxygen masks, ventilators, and nebulizers."

This is true. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about many other products. Hand sanitizer, patient monitors, thermometers, oxygen concentrators, medical protective clothing, sterile gloves, and more were targeted with tariffs in three phases since July 2018. Those tariffs were imposed despite repeated warnings from medical professionals that they would disrupt supply chains and erode the health care industry's ability to respond to a crisis, as Reason reported last week.

Unsurprisingly, American imports of those Chinese-made medical products fell by 16 percent between 2017 (the last full year before Trump's tariffs) and 2019.

Secondly, Lighthizer admits that "imports of certain other medical products from China have declined since tariffs were imposed," but argues that those declines have been offset by an increase in imports from other countries.

"The evidence that I presented does not show that," says Chad Bown, senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

It was Bown's research that served as the basis for the Journal piece to which Lighthizer was responding. What that research shows, in fact, is that American imports of products form the rest of the world (not counting China) increased by about 23 percent in 2017 (the last full year before the anti-China tariffs), and again by 23 percent in 2018. In other words, Bown explained in an email to Reason, America was buying more products from all sources before the tariffs—likely the product of having an aging population that was demanding more health care—but imports from non-China sources did not increase at a faster rate as Chinese imports declined.

"My read of the data is that imports from the rest of the world in the product categories hit with tariffs did not grow much faster than the products not hit with tariffs," Bown says. "And for his argument to hold up, that is the argument that would need to be made."

Even if you give Lighthizer the benefit of the doubt on this point—that is, let's pretend that imports from other parts of the world did offset the decrease in imports from China—Americans still end up as losers in the trade war.

"Even if we import the same amount now as before, we pay higher prices, and thus endure unnecessarily high costs of preventing and treating coronavirus," points out Don Boudreaux, a professor of economics at George Mason University.

Thirdly, Lighthizer argues that the whole thing has been blown out of proportion because "the U.S. Trade Representative granted immediate exclusions from [the China tariffs] for all critical medical products weeks ago."

In other words, he wants credit for undoing the very policies that he's also claiming didn't actually harm America's coronavirus response. If they didn't matter, one might wonder, why undo them?

The obvious answer is that the Trump administration knows full well that the tariffs were a barrier to importing medical equipment that would be critical to fighting the coronavirus. They know that because medical professionals literally told them so at public hearings about the China tariffs.

Removing the tariffs was the right thing to do, but Lighthizer and Trump don't get to take credit for choosing on March 10 to lift barriers that they were responsible for imposing in the first place, nor do they get credit for the fact that they left the tariffs in place until well after COVID-19 had reached American shores.


The Trump administration is now seeking public comments on those recent modifications to the China tariffs as they apply to medical equipment. It ought to be eye-opening to see what members of the health care industry and medical professionals have to say.

Hopefully, this time, Trump and Lighthizer will listen.


https://reason.com/2020/03/24/trumps-to ... -his-spin/
User avatar
natsb88
Too Busy Posting to Hoard Anything Else
 
Posts: 8403
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: The Copper Cave

Re: Trump Tariff Thread

Postby Treetop » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:39 am

I find that article silly myself. We held pressure to an authoritarian government that can hold our own companies supplies against us and has while also giving 1k vents to NYC as a puvlicity stunt. A country that steal our intellectual property which is our best asset in a global market. It hurt them enough they appear atleast close to maybe possibly ending some of their games. Probably not but atleast we tried. Might even still partly work. I honestly find it a bit simple minded some people cant see how dangerous it is to rely on others during a crisis. You think your dollars matter more then their countrymen??? this crisis doesnt bear that out whatsoever. Oh gee it cost a little more as your article explains? sure we have real wages in the US whereas people make next to nothing in some nations we moved our production to. Adjust your priorities. The future of globilization is the US being very poor compared to now if you cant see past your ideals. Relying on people who dont always like us and love our dollars in good times and burn them for heat in bad ones.
Treetop
Super Post Hoarder
 
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:50 am

PreviousNext

Return to Economic & Business News, Reports, and Predictions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests