rant

[hejira11]

I am ready to max out my c.c. with physical gold and MRE purchases then file bankrupcy

[Thogey]

That's unethical, that is, to make a plan to burn your creditors.

[hobo finds]

you have to do what you do... but my luck metals would crash after i did this

[Country]

Never use someone else's money to buy your PMs. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

[barrytrot]

While I agree that credit card companies are often (perhaps generally) scum and that taking advantage of scum is sort of "ok", I would recommend against this specific tact.

For one, if you were to buy anything that could be tracked as a "purchase of goods" and then file bankruptcy quickly thereafter you could be tried for criminal fraud. That's really bad.

For another you would be surprised how little difference there would be in your life at the end other than knowing you did this, which you wouldn't truly like.

[aloneibreak]

lets call it what it is

straight up stealing

[argent_pur]

I agree with the above, just flat wrong. I'm thinking/hoping you're just fantasizing about having all that metal, and I don't blame you...heck, I have dreams about finding loads of silver several times a month, BUT are you really prepared for the consequences should it not work out the way you plan it?

Come on now, just let the air out and tell us all you're joking---you ARE joking, right?

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I am ready to max out my c.c. with physical gold and MRE purchases then file bankrupcy

I don't think it is a good idea. I knew a guy that says he pulled that off twice with buying electronics and then hawking them to pawn shops. The laws have changed since then. He can't do it now.

If the opponents lawyers find out, they will demand the PM's back. If you don't return them, they will talk to the judge.

If the judge finds out, he too , will demand the ill gotten property back. If you don't return it, you could go to jail.

If the IRS finds out, now you are really in trouble!

If your friends and neighbors find out, you will become a social outcast. No one will trust you, just like the guy I mentioned above.

[hejira11]

Thanks everyone above, You talked me back from the edge. It's just that the more i learn about economics and our monitary system, the more disgusted I get... And QE3 hasn't even started yet!

Seriously, thank you for the words of sanity.

[AGCoinHunter]

Agreed, not ethical. Trust me when all is said and done you won’t be any better of for doing it. Yes, our system is "fubar" but for now you have to learn how to live within it and make the best of it as you can. Work hard to change what you see is wrong through peaceful means. Go out and educate those you know about how much of a tax burden our politicians have given us. Work hard to oust these ignorant people and install those who practice fiscal responsibility. Change starts on local levels.

I also suggest you start a savings plan that you contribute to daily and use that to buy your PM's. Toss your extra change into a jar, every evening stuff the $1 dollar bills from your wallet into a can, skip that trip to the fast food joint and put that money aside, ect....you get the point. In a few months you will be surprised of how much you have set aside. Then turn that "extra" cash into PM's.

[barrytrot]

Agreed, not ethical. Trust me when all is said and done you won’t be any better of for doing it. Yes, our system is "fubar" but for now you have to learn how to live within it and make the best of it as you can. Work hard to change what you see is wrong through peaceful means. Go out and educate those you know about how much of a tax burden our politicians have given us. Work hard to oust these ignorant people and install those who practice fiscal responsibility. Change starts on local levels.

I also suggest you start a savings plan that you contribute to daily and use that to buy your PM's. Toss your extra change into a jar, every evening stuff the $1 dollar bills from your wallet into a can, skip that trip to the fast food joint and put that money aside, ect....you get the point. In a few months you will be surprised of how much you have set aside. Then turn that "extra" cash into PM's.

Good thoughts, although I'm not sure "peaceful" beats the army most of the time. So far Ghandi 1-0, everyone else 0-lots

Also, if you want to save money faster tear up all credit cards and get out of debt. You will be surprised the level of freedom that gives versus having a few more possessions around.

[hejira11]

I'm a Dave Ramsey follower. I was on his 6th Step. I had all debt paid off,with 6 months of living expenses saved and am/was working on paying off my mortgage. Only now I am underwater on my mortgage after sinking nearly 30K in it to work toward getting it paid off. I'm just cranky. In better shape than many, I understand that-but I made the hard decisions for myself and have lived ultra frugal for the past decade, only to be rewarded for it with this current S***

[Lemon Thrower]

i don't like all of ramsey's advice. I purposefully have not paid off my mortgage or contribute to 401ks or hold 6 months of FRNs as an emergency fund. instead i hold pms. pms are money, you don't need 6 months of FRNs. a mortgage is an indirect (tax deductible) way of financing your pms.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I'm a Dave Ramsey follower. I was on his 6th Step. I had all debt paid off,with 6 months of living expenses saved and am/was working on paying off my mortgage. Only now I am underwater on my mortgage after sinking nearly 30K in it to work toward getting it paid off. I'm just cranky. In better shape than many, I understand that-but I made the hard decisions for myself and have lived ultra frugal for the past decade, only to be rewarded for it with this current S***

Sorry, maybe I am slow. How did you get underwater? I am not trying to get too personal, just trying to see if we could maybe help you out.

I like Dave Ramsey, too. I don't follow his advise to the letter, but he makes more sense than some others out there. Lemon Thrower had some good ideas, too. I don't own any 401k's, IRA's or any other government sanctioned retirement accounts. I don't trust the gov. enough for that.

[Tourney64]

Very unethical. I wouldn't expect this from a RC member.
If you file bankruptcy the amount witten off by the credit card company (original charges, interest, late charges, legal fees), are all reported to the IRS as income you received. All the fees could double the amount of the original purchase.

[hejira11]

I titled this thread RANT (not what I am going to do) I realize it is not cool. I was just.....ranting. I am in Central florida and bought at the height of the Real Estate bubble. I put 20% down to get a mortgage without PMI. SInce last year ( I am a slow learner) I used most of my FRN's to purchase Silver and long term food/supplies, needless to say I respect Dave Ramsey and his ethics, or I would not have stuck with his advice for 10 years.

I am just letting off some steam.

[Red King]

Hi, Hejira. Afew years ago, I picked up one of Ramsey's books and started reading.
A lot of the advice is elementary and common sense; however, what really stuck out is his stand on the credit system.

I have always viewed the credit system as a massive scam, orchestrated by the oligarchs running the credit bureaus. That ridiculously over-pumped number, called a credit score is, in my eyes, a carrot held on a string in front of our noses for people to blindly chase.
The only way to increase it is to intentionally pick up several lines of credit, get into debt, then continue making payments on said debt, essentially becoming a slave to it, and unnecessarily spend hard-earned money on interest. Those of us who are smart enough to stear clear of these contraptions are 'punished' with lower scores.
He goes on to elaborate how if we all just payed cash for all of our needs, we would starve these usurous behemoths, and perhaps make this country a much better place. Let's face it- politicians will never do that. Lobbyist money is just too darned tempting, and those who run for office already often have self-centered, narcisisstic personalities by default anyway- tends to go with the territory, y'know.

...sorry, don't mean to steal your rant, there, Hejira. Here you go (...hands the 'rant' back...)

But anyway, I understand the searing rage that spawns from following a smart, well-though-out financial plan, only to find yourself in the same boat as the morons who, if they won the lottery, would spend in all by next Monday.

[henrysmedford]

I am ready to max out my c.c. with physical gold and MRE purchases then file bankrupcy

When I started reading this post I was asking myself whats a cc. I am glad that I had to read on to find out.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I titled this thread RANT (not what I am going to do) I realize it is not cool. I was just.....ranting. I am in Central florida and bought at the height of the Real Estate bubble. I put 20% down to get a mortgage without PMI. SInce last year ( I am a slow learner) I used most of my FRN's to purchase Silver and long term food/supplies, needless to say I respect Dave Ramsey and his ethics, or I would not have stuck with his advice for 10 years.

I am just letting off some steam.

Hmmm... maybe I am slow again, for I still don't see how you are "upside down" on the house. "Upside down" used to mean you could not pay your bills. Are you still able to pay the mortgage payments? If so, then how are you upside down? Now, if you are unable to pay the mortgage and are sinking underwater, okay, I get it. That is why we have bankruptcy laws to protect honest people who get into trouble.

Are you referring to the mortgage on the house is now higher than the resale value? IF that is the case, stop worrying about it, it really does not matter. It is an illusion. Fair market value is what the buyer and seller agreed to. Remember all the reasons you bought that house. Take pride in the ownership of you home. It's your castle. Be happy with it.

I am no wizard with a crystal ball, but every indicator I know of says silver will soon zoom to the moon. Your investments in silver will pay off in spades. Hopefully, there will be enough profit for you to pay off the loan on the house and you can live debt-free. If not, at least there should be enough to pay down the debt so you can refinance it.

[hejira11]

Hey Sheikh! I guess "under water" is the term I needed to use. I owe more than it is worth. I know you are right about the silver, so I am trudging along-payin my bills and buying more Silver.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Hey Sheikh! I guess "under water" is the term I needed to use. I owe more than it is worth. I know you are right about the silver, so I am trudging along-payin my bills and buying more Silver.

Okay, now I get it. If you have more monthly bills than you can pay there are many things you can do to avoid losing your home. Your creditors do not want to foreclose. They want you to pay all the interest on the original debt. That is how they make their money.

Find a good credit counseling lawyer who is willing to work with you. They are out there. I am not talking about a lawyer whose first and only solution to your problems is filing bankruptcy. The type of lawyer I speak of will review your finances, help you set up a budget, contact your creditors and negotiate for new terms. Usually their fee is reasonable. If you are not in too deep, it will work! In fact, if you are not in too deep, you don't even need a lawyer, you can use a credit counseling service. Their fees are even less.

Good luck!

[barrytrot]

I'm a Dave Ramsey follower. I was on his 6th Step. I had all debt paid off,with 6 months of living expenses saved and am/was working on paying off my mortgage. Only now I am underwater on my mortgage after sinking nearly 30K in it to work toward getting it paid off. I'm just cranky. In better shape than many, I understand that-but I made the hard decisions for myself and have lived ultra frugal for the past decade, only to be rewarded for it with this current S***

Do you mean rewarded with living in a nice home that you will one day own? Sounds decent to me.

Just because you owe more *now* than the value of your house changes nothing. You thought it was worth a certain amount when you bought it, so you should be excited that you owe less than previously.

The value of homes always goes up and down. So hold on to it, pay it off and in the end it will be worth more than now and you will own it.

That's a GREAT gift that 99% of the world would take if they could.

[barrytrot]

i don't like all of ramsey's advice. I purposefully have not paid off my mortgage or contribute to 401ks or hold 6 months of FRNs as an emergency fund. instead i hold pms. pms are money, you don't need 6 months of FRNs. a mortgage is an indirect (tax deductible) way of financing your pms.

Yeah, Dave Ramsey HATES pms with a passion. But his primary "mission" is debt free-ness, which every person I speak with that is debt free says is literally the most amazing thing you can imagine.

Just recently I was speaking with my uncle who is debt free and a BIG believer in silver also He is a pastor and a great guy and says that one of the things that has brought him the most joy and peace outside the Lord is being debt free.

[henrysmedford]

It goes both ways. I bought junk silver in Feb. 2008 spot was $19.20--

In Oct. 2008 spot was under $9.00

I was underwater. With your own money would you walk away?

[hejira11]

Thanks again. I am going through a lot not to mention I'm kinda between Financial Guru's. I appreciate the reality checks from all of you. It is true that Dave Ramsey does not like Precious Metals. I never understood that, but I hold physical now and will never again pay one cent more than I owe each month on my mortgage. He gave sound advice for the world as I understood it a decade ago. EVERYTHING is different now.

My extra money is going into silver/food/preparedness skills/supplies. I have nothing but respect for Dave, being debt free (except for the house) really is a good feeling.