Off the grid solar or wind power generators

[thedrifter]

I would like to by a solar and or wind power generator with storage batteries, to go off the grid with if needed. I would like a system that I can even run large appliances with by directly plugging into the power generator or batteries. Also I would like something portable. (so I can unhook and load up if I need to get out of town). I have seen some portable solar power generators on the internet, but I am a bit puzzled about what I could run and or for how long. I thought I could pick the brains of the forum members here.

I will post the same thread on the Guides/Articles/Blogs Section.

Thanks in advance for your help advice and suggestions.

[justoneguy]

post a link to the solar generater that you're looking at,
and we could answer your questions easier about what it'll run.
how many watts are the panels?
how much capacity in the batteries?
what size is the inverter?

i have a 45 watt panel [that's very low power] hooked to two 115 amp hour batteries at my cabin.
since i'm only there an average of 1 weekend a month it stores plenty of power for me.
should i need more power for any reason, i have some larger panels [175 watt] i put up.
i do not have a large enough diversion heat sink to leave those bigger panels up all the time.

[glass]

You cant run appliances on a portable grid
Be lucky to charge a smart phone

[Tourney64]

A very promising and cheaper solar energy is Dow Solar shingles. A large portion of the cost of solar panels is beefing up the roof for the added weight and specialized installation training. The solar shingles can be installed by any roofer. It also doesn't require special association approval. http://www.dowsolar.com/

[natsb88]

I would like a system that I can even run large appliances with by directly plugging into the power generator or batteries. Also I would like something portable.

Those two features are not compatible. You'll have to pick one or the other.

[justoneguy]

I would like a system that I can even run large appliances with by directly plugging into the power generator or batteries. Also I would like something portable.

Those two features are not compatible. You'll have to pick one or the other.

you can actually run whatever you want.
it's a matter of panel wattage, battery capacity, inverter sizing, + how long you need to run those appliances.

[natsb88]

I would like a system that I can even run large appliances with by directly plugging into the power generator or batteries. Also I would like something portable.

Those two features are not compatible. You'll have to pick one or the other.

you can actually run whatever you want.
it's a matter of panel wattage, battery capacity, inverter sizing, + how long you need to run those appliances.

Right, but the panel, battery, and inverter sizing to be able to run large appliances for any appreciable period of time would make the system less than portable.

[thedrifter]

Hey guys thanks for all the input. The two websites that I am looking at are POWERENZ.COM (I like the LFP200 SYSTEM. Although it is a bit expensive). And MYSOLARBACKUP.COM (I am less sure about this site. I am looking at the POWERHUB1800). I guess one of my questions or concerns is are either of these good wattage to cost ratios relative to other off the grid systems? Any ideas on other systems out there?

[justoneguy]

while the LFP200 SYSTEM is a really cool looking system, it's very expensive @ about $32 a watt 360 watt total for the solar panels.
to try to figure out what you need/want, try starting here.
i have never used them, but they seem to have decent prices, off grid systems with batteries from about $6 a watt.
here is their learning center.
http://www.affordable-solar.com/Learning-Center

[thedrifter]

while the LFP200 SYSTEM is a really cool looking system, it's very expensive @ about $32 a watt 360 watt total for the solar panels.
to try to figure out what you need/want, try starting here.
i have never used them, but they seem to have decent prices, off grid systems with batteries from about $6 a watt.
here is their learning center.
http://www.affordable-solar.com/Learning-Center

Okay, thanks Lots of good infomation there. I'll call them Tuesday and have a talk with them

[NiBullionCu]

Everything you could want to know:

http://homepower.com/home/

Be warned, you can lose days on that site...

[Lemon Thrower]

don't let me discourage you, but here is what i have found.

-wind provides more power at a cheaper cost than solar
- if you want to run a typical suburban house, you need a pretty big windmill
- you ought to look at wind maps for your area - some areas are not that windy.
- the higher you can place the windmill, the more wind you'll get. so investing in a tower is a good idea.
- whether this makes sense for you depends on tax incentives in your state and electric service area.
- whether this makes sense for you depends on how your utility buys excess power from you. you see, what you really need to do is to be able to sell the excess back to your power co at full retail rates. this is true net metering. some places have net metering but they buy it back at the wholesale rate - which is about one-tenth!
- if you have net metering, and you buy the right size equipment, you'll have a reasonable break-even period.
- if you are truly off the grid, you'll need batteries too and that will double the cost. say goodbye to break even.
- none of this is portable.
- when you have done this much work and invested this much, you'll see what great bargains things like gas and insulation are.

[Rob72830]

Everything you could want to know:

http://homepower.com/home/

Be warned, you can lose days on that site...

Yes you can. I was just on it and learned a lot about solar power. I can't afford a big system but I would like a small system to be a backup whenever the electricity goes out. Harbor Freight has a 45 watt system for about $200. I think it will work for to power TV, satelight, and fridge. Back in May we had a tornado come through and destroyed a lot of homes and uprooted light poles. I went for about 3 days using a 3500 watt generator. For what I spent in gas, I could have installed an RE system. Thanks for the lead.

[Mossy]

You have to be a power miser to use a portable solar system. If you live in a dry area, a fan blowing on a burlap covered set of shelves will do well. A high humidity area? Need to go with a very expensive, power miser fridge or cut back to a tiny fridge, if you are going to refrigerate anything.

When I lived in the woods, I used power only for lights. I could have used a nearby creek for keeping things cold, but never had anything I needed to keep cold. Laundry was by hand or a trip into town. I wanted to set up a tumble type "washing machine" turned by a crank, but never figured out how to set it up.

I'd want power for my computer, cell phone, and lights, now. Nothing else. Easy for solar power.

[68Camaro]

Decided to experiment and setup a cheap solar charging system with inverter to understand the technology (as well as give me another small option in the event of power issues, besides fossil fuel generators). Harbor Freight - <$150 in it complete so far. 15W/12VDC panel with a basic frame, a basic charge controller, a 12V sealed 35Ah deep-cycle battery, and a 200W MSW inverter. Just put it on the porch and even in the early morning shade it's pumping out it's 14+ V output (not sure the current) and charging the battery.

As I understand it this is a real basic system and based on blog feedback not dependable for long-term reliabilty. But lessons learned here may save money on any later investment in this technology.

If anyone else is either dabbling in or advanced in this stuff, I'd like to discuss it in this thread (or another).

20140120_094751.jpg (54.91 KiB) Viewed 2766 times

[Engineer]

You might want to look into glass mat batteries.

http://www.dcbattery.com/agmtech.html

[68Camaro]

You might want to look into glass mat batteries.

http://www.dcbattery.com/agmtech.html

This little one I got from HF supposely uses that technology, but the battery is just 35Ah and I'm going to want something several times larger at some point. Do you have any specific suggestions from your link above I can focus on?

[68Camaro]

I was at least somewhat happy with the setup, for what it is. To get max current I had to try to keep it in direct sun and aimed right, which is a challenge in our yard, but when I did I could get 14+ watts out of it. Max was .98 A at 14.2V. So it does what it says, and it managed to charge the battery (or top it off, probably more like it) during the 4-5 hours it was outside. But I think my $20 inverter is pretty crappy - it couldn't even power my supposedly 160W coffee grinder, though I'm sure the start-up current is much higher - it would click then stop. If someone has inverter suggestions I'd be interested in knowing where to get the most bang for buck on a lower-end unit.

[Engineer]

I was at least somewhat happy with the setup, for what it is. To get max current I had to try to keep it in direct sun and aimed right, which is a challenge in our yard, but when I did I could get 14+ watts out of it. Max was .98 A at 14.2V. So it does what it says, and it managed to charge the battery (or top it off, probably more like it) during the 4-5 hours it was outside. But I think my $20 inverter is pretty crappy - it couldn't even power my supposedly 160W coffee grinder, though I'm sure the start-up current is much higher - it would click then stop. If someone has inverter suggestions I'd be interested in knowing where to get the most bang for buck on a lower-end unit.

Most inverters will advertise peak power, while power draining stuff gets advertised at it's normal load...so at a minimum you should buy twice the inverter as your expected load. (your coffee grinder is probably rated 160w running empty, so you might even want a 600w)

I have a cheap 350w for the car, but don't know the best unit for your purpose. It would be nice if you could find one with a big enough heat sink to avoid the parasitic loss of running a fan.

[Engineer]

You might want to look into glass mat batteries.

http://www.dcbattery.com/agmtech.html

This little one I got from HF supposely uses that technology, but the battery is just 35Ah and I'm going to want something several times larger at some point. Do you have any specific suggestions from your link above I can focus on?

Nothing specific. They seem to run about $1/Ah on Alibaba, and I saw some 200Ah models available in 6 and 12V. You'd probably be looking at $2/Ah retail.

[justoneguy]

I have upgraded my cabin slightly.
I found "rebuilt" deep cycle batteries at Interstate battery's main warehouse.
I bought 3 class 27 115AH?[ like a large car battery size] for $30 each.. Score!!!
I bought a 10 light string on a hundred foot cord for $20 [these are generally used for new construction lighting].
with all 10 cfl bulbs turned on it draws less than 150 watts.
I normally only use 1-4 lights at a time, but It's nice to be able to have all the light i'd ever want.
I purchased 3, 400 watt inverters on ebay for a total of $45.
These have a digital display showing, Battery charge [volts] AC voltage, and watts being used
I'm only using 1 currently, that works for all my general use power.
I bought a xantrex 1500 watt inverter off craigslist for $60 another SCORE !!
but I never really use it. for now, if I want to saw wood, or vacuum, I fire up a small 1000 watt generator.
I also found 3, 20 amp "morningstar" charge controllers for $50
that sure beats the 40 amp xantrex I paid $150 for.
I found 12, 175 watt panels [shattered but functioning at full voltage] for $100 total.
I'm going to have to mesure how many amps that they are actually putting out someday,
but 2 of those and my original 3, 15 amp panels from habor freight keep me all juiced up.
I do not get very much direct sun at all maybe an hour a day.

[68Camaro]

I was at least somewhat happy with the setup, for what it is. To get max current I had to try to keep it in direct sun and aimed right, which is a challenge in our yard, but when I did I could get 14+ watts out of it. Max was .98 A at 14.2V. So it does what it says, and it managed to charge the battery (or top it off, probably more like it) during the 4-5 hours it was outside. But I think my $20 inverter is pretty crappy - it couldn't even power my supposedly 160W coffee grinder, though I'm sure the start-up current is much higher - it would click then stop. If someone has inverter suggestions I'd be interested in knowing where to get the most bang for buck on a lower-end unit.

Most inverters will advertise peak power, while power draining stuff gets advertised at it's normal load...so at a minimum you should buy twice the inverter as your expected load. (your coffee grinder is probably rated 160w running empty, so you might even want a 600w)

I have a cheap 350w for the car, but don't know the best unit for your purpose. It would be nice if you could find one with a big enough heat sink to avoid the parasitic loss of running a fan.

From what I'm seeing in practice combined with your note I need to go big(ger) on the inverter, and try for higher quality at same time. The heat sink is a good point. Thanks!

[68Camaro]

I have upgraded my cabin slightly.
I found "rebuilt" deep cycle batteries at Interstate battery's main warehouse.
I bought 3 class 27 115AH?[ like a large car battery size] for $30 each.. Score!!!
I bought a 10 light string on a hundred foot cord for $20 [these are generally used for new construction lighting].
with all 10 cfl bulbs turned on it draws less than 150 watts.
I normally only use 1-4 lights at a time, but It's nice to be able to have all the light i'd ever want.
I purchased 3, 400 watt inverters on ebay for a total of $45.
These have a digital display showing, Battery charge [volts] AC voltage, and watts being used
I'm only using 1 currently, that works for all my general use power.
I bought a xantrex 1500 watt inverter off craigslist for $60 another SCORE !!
but I never really use it. for now, if I want to saw wood, or vacuum, I fire up a small 1000 watt generator.
I also found 3, 20 amp "morningstar" charge controllers for $50
that sure beats the 40 amp xantrex I paid $150 for.
I found 12, 175 watt panels [shattered but functioning at full voltage] for $100 total.
I'm going to have to mesure how many amps that they are actually putting out someday,
but 2 of those and my original 3, 15 amp panels from habor freight keep me all juiced up.
I do not get very much direct sun at all maybe an hour a day.

Sounds like you've got a lot of experience, as well as a lot of hardware. If I'm reading you correctly from above you've picked up a lot of stuff. What is actually in use (panels, controller, inverter, batteries) and how is it hooked up? How long does it take with that setup to charge your batteries?

I'm like you, mostly shade. What full sun I get moves around a lot, so an hour of full sun on a fixed system is probably all I can count on this time of year.

[justoneguy]

Sounds like you've got a lot of experience, as well as a lot of hardware. If I'm reading you correctly from above you've picked up a lot of stuff. What is actually in use (panels, controller, inverter, batteries) and how is it hooked up? How long does it take with that setup to charge your batteries?

I'm like you, mostly shade. What full sun I get moves around a lot, so an hour of full sun on a fixed system is probably all I can count on this time of year.

I do have a good amount of equipment, more than I need ,definitely.
At the price that I was able to acquire parts, I was able to get a backup for everything,
except batteries, I don't know how to store them for long term. [maybe buy a couple of new and store them dry?]
I'll start on the roof and go down the system from there.
I started with 3, - 15 watt panels from HF. I threw away the charge controller that came with those,
I bought a xantrex C-30 charge controller for $135. I thought I would use the charge diverter. [I don't]
I would bring 1, 115ah deep cycle from my camper, that was fully charged, so I was never sure how much power I was getting
I wasn't using an inverter or a multi-meter yet, I bought 12 volt cfl's for about $10 each. [huge waste of money]
I used that setup for about 3 years,
Then I got all the shattered 175 watt panels, and started putting together a serious system.
I found 3 of these used and untested very cheap on ebay. they all worked'
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MorningStar-Pro ... 2a167e86ca
They have a cool function that will turn on [power] the lights for for different lengths of time at sunset and b4 sunup.
I use that feature rarely, but it could be used for more things.
I left the original panels and controller as is. [it could handle a lot more watts / amps ]
but when I added 2 of the larger panels I put in 1 of the new controllers too.
I now have the capacity to hook in a few more panels temporarily, should I ever run low on power.
this looks like the inverter I'm using, I think mine is 400 watts but not sure as this looks just like mine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHUMACHER-CAR- ... 2ecdc76e42
the digital display is a great asset as it lets me know exactly what my system is doing.
the usb power outlet is a nice addition also for charging our portable electronics.
I cannot say how long it takes to charge the battery bank as it never gets too far discharged.
We just spent 4 days 3 nights for new years, and never ran out of power.
I did have to clean the snow off the panels, so between that and the lack of direct sun,
I am thinking about moving them up the mountain 75 feet, and putting them in te air where the snow can fall off.

[mrlaufer]

Decided to experiment and setup a cheap solar charging system with inverter to understand the technology (as well as give me another small option in the event of power issues, besides fossil fuel generators). Harbor Freight - <$150 in it complete so far. 15W/12VDC panel with a basic frame, a basic charge controller, a 12V sealed 35Ah deep-cycle battery, and a 200W MSW inverter. Just put it on the porch and even in the early morning shade it's pumping out it's 14+ V output (not sure the current) and charging the battery.

As I understand it this is a real basic system and based on blog feedback not dependable for long-term reliabilty. But lessons learned here may save money on any later investment in this technology.

If anyone else is either dabbling in or advanced in this stuff, I'd like to discuss it in this thread (or another).

20140120_094751.jpg

From my experience (fire alarm panels, not yet solar) deep-cycle batteries aren't worth the extra $$$. If they are not drained into submission and then recharged constantly (according to my contacts at Batteries Plus) you don't get the full 3-5 years of use from them. Usually a cell will go bad, then another, and it begins to swell. This is why we stick to standard batteries for our installs, roughly 2/3 the price and almost 2x life