Opinons Please - Physical Metal Vs. Vault Held?

[BullionStar]

Would very much like to hear realcenters views on the thorny issue of holding Gold/Silver as physical coins and bars against vaulted precious metal services like BullionVault / Gold Money et al.

I am predominently a physical holder (gold and silver) , but am considering moving a portion into a vault held service.

[68Camaro]

Believe this is very much both world-view and resource dependent.

If you have any concern about a SHTF scenario, then storing as much physical PM as needed to protect your family in a multi-year crisis, placed in diverse, protected/secure, accessible-to-you locations, would be key. If you are extremely flush with money and you've already accumulated and stored enough locally to take care of your family, and have funds remaining, and if you view further PMs as an investment or further protection for a less severe future scenario, then a vault service for some of the balance might make sense. As perhaps would physical traded funds like PSLV.

The other extreme (which I'm not suggesting you are endorsing or considering, but it's worthwhile when decision making to consider the extremes) is this... If one is extremely confident in the ability of our civilzation to maintain itself and continue to progress despite extreme stress caused by finanical peril the like of which we've never seen, unusual natural disasters, war that risks loss of our current primary economic fuel (petroleum), and risk of additional war, one might be willing to pull all your holdings in an inaccessible-to-you location from which you can only withdraw assets via the assumption that our current socio-political norms remain in place. I realize there are people that have this view. (As difficult as it is for me to believe that we've come to this, it seems that we now have 30% of the population that actually firmly believe in this view, including those that control the major "institutions", and another 20-30% of the population that are too mindless to actually think for themselves period and whose opinions are framed by the media of the day. Thus our spiral downward.)

Just an opinion...

[Mossy]

What a problem. I'd research the company as well as I could as it would be too easy for a crook to just front stack a bunch of shelves and claim to have a hundred times as much bullion as he really has, and sell the rest, or not even buy the bullion people ask him to and blow the money.

Keep it around the house in a vault, or something? A safe would sure draw attention, and a closer search then or later. How to protect the metal? I recall hearing about drug dealers buying silver bullion and making a patio out of the ingots. That'd be something. Maybe stack silver ingots near a bullet casting operation? They do look sort of like fresh cast lead.

[Know Common Cents]

No question about it. It's got to be physical. Safe storage is a problem and concern, but the resourceful person can find away. In happier times, I may opt for vault storage for SOME of my physical metal, but mine's 100% under my control even though it's many miles from my apartment. I like to sleep easier at night and am able to do that.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

As the old saying goes... diversify.

Put some in a bank safety deposit box, some in a safe at home, and then use your imagination. The better you hide it, the longer you will keep it.

[argent_pur]

Would very much like to hear realcenters views on the thorny issue of holding Gold/Silver as physical coins and bars against vaulted precious metal services like BullionVault / Gold Money et al.

I am predominently a physical holder (gold and silver) , but am considering moving a portion into a vault held service.

I agree with Sheikh---offshore bullion vaults would be a good option for wealthier people who are more mobile. Maybe you're rich I don't know, it's not my business. But, precious metals held in a vault thousands of miles away do you no good in an emergency, so it would serve no other purpose than geographical diversity. Everything I've read on GoldMoney leads me to believe they are a good company to deal with, but unless you have a significant amount of gold to store--thousands of ounces--stick with physical and diversify within your immediate region (bank lock box, home floor safe, midnight gardening, etc...). At least then, your stash is broken up AND close at hand. My opinion...

[HPMBTT]

This is a tough question to answer. And believe me, I think about this kind of stuff every single day. Yes, diversification is the key (hiding in multiple places). So I mostly agree with the other comments. Split in at least three places, such as in the ground/buried, a hidden stash at home and then perhaps out of town/state at a relative's or friend's place that is more secure & rural (hopefully, this is where you are headed when TSHTF). If you have higher amounts of wealth and are well-traveled overseas or have a second home overseas, then put a little there too.

I would NEVER put it in a safety deposit box at any vault/bank. If it's not in your hand, then you don't own it, period.

Home safes:

If you have a safe at home, DON'T tell anyone at all (maybe your significant other that you live with etc). The real problem I have with having a home safe (500 lbs or more and non-movable) at all is this:

1. OPSEC. Be sure to get it into your house when nobody sees you (ie move it in at night, quickly, and with protected packaging)

2. Unless well hidden, burglars will find it anyway. Even if you have firearms for self-defense and you are at home when they break in, if a burglar or gang breaks in and they have the edge on you and you don't kill them first, you're screwed and so are your PM's. Let me be more specific. Once you're held hostage and they find the safe, then it's the ultimate dilemma: do I give them or not give them the combination? If you don't open it, they shoot you or torture you until you open it. If you do open it, then they shoot you afterward. You can't win! For these reasons, you may want to consider putting any PM's that are home-stored perhaps in other small multiple hiding places that don't involve an actual large physical safe. Be creative, in other words. Oh, and by the way, if you are not home when they break in and they find the safe but can't get into it, you can be sure that they will be coming back (but when?)

Sorry for side-tracking a little, but this is still part of the Op's subject (at least indirectly). I really would like to hear from others on this too. I would appreciate comments on what you would do with your PM's if you had your own full private home, versus what you would do if you only had an apartment rental (most people in the USA), which has too many people around.

[Mossy]

2. Unless well hidden, burglars will find it anyway. Even if you have firearms for self-defense and you are at home when they break in, if a burglar or gang breaks in and they have the edge on you and you don't kill them first, you're screwed and so are your PM's. Let me be more specific. Once you're held hostage and they find the safe, then it's the ultimate dilemma: do I give them or not give them the combination?

I poked around over at Fernando's after my post above. He has a few things to say about the above type situation. The bad guys don't have to grab you, he can grab a family member, etc.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/crime

[exbingoaddict]

Ask yourself what your objectives are. If you're looking to trade gold, it's easier to do on paper. If you want to hold gold, do you prefer to have it in hand or get a piece of paper that says you own it? Also consider the upsides and downsides of who hard or easy it is to track ownership of physical vs. paper gold. Consider what your want to accomplish with owning gold and silver and that will lead you down the proper path(s).

[thedrifter]

Yes, if you don't have it you don't own it. I keep mine in a public storage unit. The yard has cameras. No one but my girlfriend knows that I have as much silver as I do or were it is at. I just need to pay rent every month. If things get real crazy I just go and pick it up and bring it home and hunker in place.

[Mossy]

I keep mine in a public storage unit.

I hang out in survival groups under another name. (More long ago, less now.) Some poorly regarded posters talk about raiding storage yards in the event of economic collapse, I suspect looters might decide to hit those units in the event of rioting as well.

No one but my girlfriend knows that I have as much silver as I do or were it is at.

Oh, boy. I recall a fisherman who gave his fiance a power of attorney while out on the grounds. He came back in with a hold of fish, and AK F&G told him his card was invalid, someone else owned the permit now. Oh, and BTW, his boat was no longer his. He got home and found that his house had also been sold. And he could do nothing at all.

Fem lib struck again.

[exbingoaddict]

Oh, boy. I recall a fisherman who gave his fiance a power of attorney while out on the grounds. He came back in with a hold of fish, and AK F&G told him his card was invalid, someone else owned the permit now. Oh, and BTW, his boat was no longer his. He got home and found that his house had also been sold. And he could do nothing at all.

Fem lib struck again.

Either that fisherman had a bad attorney or he was a bad client. Always make your power of attorney limited in their scope of effect. I.e. you must first become incapacited for it to take effect.

[thedrifter]

I keep mine in a public storage unit.

I hang out in survival groups under another name. (More long ago, less now.) Some poorly regarded posters talk about raiding storage yards in the event of economic collapse, I suspect looters might decide to hit those units in the event of rioting as well.

I expect the will happen as well. When the time comes I will remove the PM's from the storage and hunker in place. I just keep them there until that time.

[misteroman]

In hand 100%! Hide in creative places in the house.
Heating vents, old shoe in underneth toilet,etc. There are 1000's of places to safely hide ag and au

[shinnosuke]

In hand 100%! Hide in creative places in the house.
Heating vents, old shoe in underneth toilet,etc. There are 1000's of places to safely hide ag and au

For me, finding places to hide them is not the problem. Remembering where I hid them is. I guess taping The List Of Hiding Places on the door of the fridge is not a good idea, huh?

[Treetop]

In hand 100%! Hide in creative places in the house.
Heating vents, old shoe in underneth toilet,etc. There are 1000's of places to safely hide ag and au

For me, finding places to hide them is not the problem. Remembering where I hid them is. I guess taping The List Of Hiding Places on the door of the fridge is not a good idea, huh?

,,,and whats wrong with that? would be burglars couldnt find it all if you cant...

[Mossy]

Either that fisherman had a bad attorney or he was a bad client. Always make your power of attorney limited in their scope of effect. I.e. you must first become incapacited for it to take effect.

More likely that he lived in a remote village on the Alaska coast where he was lucky to be able to buy a pad of paper to write his "power of attorney" on. It was about 30 years ago. He needed someone to handle paying bills while he was out of touch out in the Alluetians.