Selling my silver for bitcoins

[shinnosuke]

One final thought (for now): Read the "Millionaire Next Door". You will see that the portion of "instant millionaires" is so tiny compared to those that worked harder and smarter for several years.

Very few people will become wealthy as a result of Bitcoins.

Many many people will become and have become wealthy as a result of solid investments such as silver, some stocks, commodities, and business ventures.

Even the much mailigned network marketing has more millionaires made each month than Bitcoins will ever make. NOTE: I'm a fan of network marketing, although not in it myself. It's one of the few places where the limit is only the limit you set for yourself! Regular "jobs" do not give you that.

I understand that there are only going to be 21 million bitcoins made. Theoretically, at least, if each bitcoin was worth $1M and 21 million people each had one, there would be more than a few millionaires as a result. Am I missing something?

[OneBiteAtATime]

If 21 million people held a bitcoin, would it be worth $1M? or better yet, if 1 person owned them all - what would they be worth?

This is an extremely interesting conversation! Especially in this forum!

[jerry278]

I dont mean to be a 'debbie downer' at all. That said I would really suggest that anyone considering getting involved with bitcoins to REALLY think it through. I am by no means qualified to give financial advice, but something doesnt sound right with this whole thing. Is this is even legal? Honestly. Creating a 'new digital currency' of out thin air? Doesnt seem much different than the whole 'norfed' thing. Which certainly didnt end well. I could see potentially HUGE tax issues down the road with these 'bitcoins'. Somebody somewhere is going to want taxes from this. I actually read on some forum someone mentioned it MIGHT actually ALREADY be ILLEGAL for Canadians to 'use bitcoins'.

Take two steps back from the situation and take a good look at it. Essentially some dudes just 'invented' their own 'digital currency' (backed by absolutely nothing) and now want people to play their game and spend their 'bitcoins'. Sounds like a bit of scam. Dont get me wrong I am sure theres many scams you can make money off of. It just depends on what end of the scam your on.
So if 21 million bitcoins are in existence than would it be plausible that the 'inventors' have atleast a 'couple million bitcoins'? ATLEAST. So they're trying to get people to use their new 'digital currency' or in otherwords 'appreciate their 'digital currency'.
This isnt JUST fiat folks. I dont think you could even call it fiat. Because fiat is backed by some governing body. Who backs 'bitcoins'. Their owners sure. I dont think they're even fully aware of the legality of 'inventing' your own currency.
Like someone else mentioned, it seems that your playing with fire with this one.

And to all that stuff about mining bitcoins with your computer. Dont forget theres millionares with 'super computers' that have all the means to essentially 'dry up' the 'bitcoin market'.

All that aside you could potentially make some money, or rather your 'bitcoins' could appreciate, since you can only spend them at select online vendors or 'sell your bitcoins'

My number one concern is legality, and this appears to be VERY grey.

my two cents.

[psi]

The whole thing does seem to have every sign of a speculative bubble, down to the fact that everyone and their brother is now talking about getting on board. Sounds a little like all those people who invested in 'internet' companies and ended up with either piles of money or stocks in worthless/nonfunctional companies depending on how they timed the market. Public confidence in something fairly abstract can be tricky to maintain for extended periods.

[justj2k78]

Wow. I decided to see what it was all about, so I went to the site and hit the "start generating" button...and it almost set my laptop on fire. My computer became physically warmer, and the fan kicked on, and then into super-high-helicopter-blade mode. No thanks.

[surfcaster]

The thing has gone from just a dollar to almost 20 in just a few days. Since it's a currency, look at what a bitcoin can actually buy you in goods... almost nothing. So this currency is extremely overvalued. The reason it has gone up so quick is because of "investors" piling in and a small float of "coins". Does it sound familiar? A penny stock pump-n-dump!
Go find another earlier stage bitcoin (what's stopping a competing "currency" based on the same principle?), or better yet, create one your own and be the first to own a gazillion "coins" at no cost!!

[psi]

Seems like expecting it to be a replacement for government issued currency or metals is expecting too much. I could see using such a system to be able to trade local processing power for other digital resources, but I would no sooner 'invest' money in it than I would Chuck E. Cheese tokens.

[marhjan]

Seems like expecting it to be a replacement for government issued currency or metals is expecting too much. I could see using such a system to be able to trade local processing power for other digital resources, but I would no sooner 'invest' money in it than I would Chuck E. Cheese tokens.

At the right price... I'd be all over CEC tokens

[IdahoCopper]

A few things to think about..........

If Bitcoins are successful, the system will be duplicated. Batcoins, bugcoins, blah-blah-blah-coins. Which will win and which will fail? Bitcoins is the first and may be around for a while simply because of that.

Second all the advice to Stop! Think! Don't do It!. LOL! LOL! LOL! - - Geez, the guy's talking about risking only $100 to $200. WHATEVER! Its chump-change in the big picture. <- OOPS! I stand corrected by the following post. -- /edit>

And 21 million bitcoins, that are infinitely divisible, are not the same thing at all as 21 million indivisible bitcoins. The fact that they can be split into "pieces of eight" (lol) makes the currency interesting and attainable by anyone for use.

[Treetop]

Second all the advice to Stop! Think! Don't do It!. LOL! LOL! LOL! - - Geez, the guy's talking about risking only $100 to $200. WHATEVER! Its chump-change in the big picture.

Go reread his post. Hes talking about selling half of his silver stash, which is 150 face of SILVER coins. Much more then 100 to 200 bucks.

Still his choice and i wish him luck, he may do very well if a bunch of others do what he is doing, and he pulls out before they do.

[mortarman]

I guess I spoke too soon. I'm selling half my silver stash PRIMARILY to afford to buy dimes and halves from the banks. I've since reevaluated after a thorough discussion with my wife, and though I'd kick myself if I could make a boatload on mere speculation and don't, I'd rather have a pile of dimes under my bed if the balloon goes up than all 21 bajillion bitcoins.

[John_doe]

So you don't think they will go all federal reserve on you and manipulate the supply to their own advantage? Can I sell you a bridge?

[John_doe]

Second all the advice to Stop! Think! Don't do It!. LOL! LOL! LOL! - - Geez, the guy's talking about risking only $100 to $200. WHATEVER! Its chump-change in the big picture.

Go reread his post. Hes talking about selling half of his silver stash, which is 150 face of SILVER coins. Much more then 100 to 200 bucks.

Still his choice and i wish him luck, he may do very well if a bunch of others do what he is doing, and he pulls out before they do.

Can I buy your silver, I will give you 1700 bit coins that I hacked.


I'm just teasing, he will probably make a bunch of money and get the last laugh. Best of luck.

[John_doe]

If 21 million people held a bitcoin, would it be worth $1M? or better yet, if 1 person owned them all - what would they be worth?

This is an extremely interesting conversation! Especially in this forum!

It would be worth nothing at that point. The only person that would see any value is the one holding all the bitcoins, unless of course there were some store of real asset involved like silver or copper.

It's like the federal reserve note, if one person had all those green monsters, would it be worth anything to you?

I don't think we have to worry about the hunt brothers cornering bitcoins or frn's, because they will be worthless if this happens.

[John_doe]

Wow. I decided to see what it was all about, so I went to the site and hit the "start generating" button...and it almost set my laptop on fire. My computer became physically warmer, and the fan kicked on, and then into super-high-helicopter-blade mode. No thanks.

They do that, in order to get you to spend your bitcoins on a new computer.

[John_doe]

All ribbing aside, the concept is quite brilliant, but the odds of it working are quite slim IMHO.

[John_doe]

Don't know anything about it, but it's fiat. The unique thing about it is the distribution mechanism, which is interesting. Security of it unverified. But - no matter what, it's still fiat...

Is there honestly some doubt that we put a man on the moon? Are you a flat-earther also?... .

Are you trying to tell me the earth isn't flat or something?

[rickygee]

A few things to think about..........

If Bitcoins are successful, the system will be duplicated. Batcoins, bugcoins, blah-blah-blah-coins. Which will win and which will fail? Bitcoins is the first and may be around for a while simply because of that.

The girls are all set to release 'Bitchcoins', so get on board...

[avidbrandy]

I've done some bitcoin transacations, and, taking my last trade, it has 17000 confirmations. It's one of the things the program does to prevent counterfeiting. I don't see any viable way to fake it.

Also, bitcoin has been around a while. It just got bigger recently, which means that there could be a bubble going. But long term I think it's going somewhere. Even silver has had it's 'bubbles' but still a great investment. For me I just stick to generating coins as always.

[barrytrot]

I agree with "avidbrandy", bitcoins are entrenched and used "enough" that they will hang around. Just like Lindon$. They will be around for years, for sure.

However, their value will fluctuate a lot and will stabilize much lower than the current value. Of that there is zero doubt. Zero. Just do the math: 21 miilion times $17 = $357 million dollars. That's not going to be the value of this currency. There is no chance of that.

[brian0918]

Just a couple of quick points - Bitcoins are NOT really generated for free. The people who are generating more than tiny fractional pieces of Bitcoins (ie the ones getting 50 Bitcoins at a pop) have invested at a bare minimum about $2000 USD to build a mining rig, and in many cases upwards of $10,000 USD for their server farms.

The fact that people paid for a server or something has nothing to do with the value of the Bitcoin itself which was given to them FOR FREE.

That's not true. People who "mine" for bitcoins are solving complex algorithms that the bitcoin network uses to make itself more secure. So miners are being paid in bitcoins for the service of securing the network. It is not a zero sum game - "miners" value bitcoins higher than their electricity/hardware costs, and the bitcoin network values its security higher than bitcoins. They each trade to mutual benefit.

[barrytrot]

Just a couple of quick points - Bitcoins are NOT really generated for free. The people who are generating more than tiny fractional pieces of Bitcoins (ie the ones getting 50 Bitcoins at a pop) have invested at a bare minimum about $2000 USD to build a mining rig, and in many cases upwards of $10,000 USD for their server farms.

The fact that people paid for a server or something has nothing to do with the value of the Bitcoin itself which was given to them FOR FREE.

That's not true. People who "mine" for bitcoins are solving complex algorithms that the bitcoin network uses to make the itself more secure. So miners are being paid in bitcoins for the service of securing the network.

They are being paid to substantiate the bitcoin itself. With bitcoins.

Again, no money from the outside. That's the key here. The fact that the bitcoin network appreciates the calculations being performed is irrelevant to the fact that the coins are still generated FOR FREE.

The bitcoins are generated without any money from the outside.

The money from the outside must come from speculators/investors. That's the issue.

If the currency had intrinsic value of some kind there would at least be a "floor".

[brian0918]

The fact that people paid for a server or something has nothing to do with the value of the Bitcoin itself which was given to them FOR FREE.

That's not true. People who "mine" for bitcoins are solving complex algorithms that the bitcoin network uses to make the itself more secure. So miners are being paid in bitcoins for the service of securing the network.

They are being paid to substantiate the bitcoin itself. With bitcoins.

Again, no money from the outside. That's the key here. The fact that the bitcoin network appreciates the calculations being performed is irrelevant to the fact that the coins are still generated FOR FREE.

The bitcoins are generated without any money from the outside.

The money from the outside must come from speculators/investors. That's the issue.

If the currency had intrinsic value of some kind there would at least be a "floor".

How is gold any different? All the gold in the ground is there for FREE, and you (the speculator) just need to spend the money on the hardware to dig it up. No money is coming in from the outside.

As for the "floor" in bitcoins - that is the fact that there can only be 21 million of them created. So there is a finite amount of them, just as with gold. That is what sets bitcoins and gold apart from paper, making the former useful as long-term stores of value, and the latter useless as a store of value.

[barrytrot]

They are being paid to substantiate the bitcoin itself. With bitcoins.

Again, no money from the outside. That's the key here. The fact that the bitcoin network appreciates the calculations being performed is irrelevant to the fact that the coins are still generated FOR FREE.

The bitcoins are generated without any money from the outside.

The money from the outside must come from speculators/investors. That's the issue.

If the currency had intrinsic value of some kind there would at least be a "floor".

How is gold any different? All the gold in the ground is there for FREE, and you (the speculator) just need to spend the money on the hardware to dig it up. No money is coming in from the outside.

As for the "floor" in bitcoins - that is the fact that there can only be 21 million of them created. So there is a finite amount of them, just as with gold. That is what sets bitcoins and gold apart from paper, making the former useful as long-term stores of value, and the latter useless as a store of value.

You do realize that Gold has a ton of non monetary uses right? That's a big difference from bitcoins which can be used to buy stuff from a handful of people only.

Also fyi: I agree Gold is speculative also and should not be a primary investment unless like "Market Harmony" you are buying and selling as a business.

You are correct that the limit on the supply does provide a type of a "floor", but the value of those coins is still completely arbitrary and therefore the technical floor is still zero, although I am certain it will remain well above zero (although signicantly below $18 where it is now).

For examples of finite items that go to zero: Check out several financial companies in 2008. They had a finite number of shares that were once worth a lot and dropped to very little or even zero.

A great example is "Fannie Mae". A company backed by the government even (if that's a positive). It's per share value dropped 99% even though the number of shares didn't significantly change.

[barrytrot]

NOTE: I think bitcoins are absolutely perfectly done FOR WHAT THEY ARE.

They will likely have a trade value for years.

I'm fascinated and whomever invented them is pure genious!

Get a few, fine. Trade with them, fine.

Do NOT invest in them.

When you need them to make a trade, aquire some at that time. Trade them. Keep a very small balance of them.