Raising fish in a barrel.

[Treetop]

Well some people do use trout, in larger set ups. but they need much more room, and much more food in relation to how much they grow. There really isnt many fish in the world or animals for that matter that are anywhere even close to eating 1.2-1.4 pounds of food and growing a pound, as are certain carps and tilapias. few fish have as varied of a diet....

and really carp can be tasty, if they are in good water or put in good water(alive) a few days, to purge the muckiness out......

[Bubba Bullion]

http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/

[tinhorn]

Many years ago I read a Mother Earth News article about tilapia--I had no idea you could raise them in a barrel! Keep us posted, please.

[Treetop]

I will tinhorn, since a few showed some interest...... at this point I havent been able to build some sand filters yet. So I still have to change out water every few days, but this will be much easier in summer. because algae blooms will eat up much of the very stuff I have to change out the water to thwart now. and algae is a favorite food of tilapia and the carp i have.

[NoCents]

Always been a open seas ginda guy.....Couldn't stand the thought of eating fish that will eat its own terds.....Just sayin'

[Treetop]

Always been a open seas ginda guy.....Couldn't stand the thought of eating fish that will eat its own terds.....Just sayin'

Mine dont do that, I keep them well fed. at least not that Ive ever seen. Ive got to clean that stuff from the tank. i also have snails and clams in there eating some of that stuff.

[Treetop]

DUCKWEED!!!!! this is a highly nutritious plant that grows really fast. If you go with carp (which can be tasty raised right!! ) or tilapia, they will happily eat just that if thats all they have.

So if you were going for a bare basement set up, get a few 55 gallon drums for the fish to grow in, and lets say a dozen kiddy pools for the duckweed or fairy moss to grow in. algae in there is great to, fish like it, but this stuff is better and grows faster. this stuff will clean your water while its growing!!! you can dry it also and feed it to chickens or quail or ducks as well. so raise the fish in the barrels, and take out the dirty fish water, put it into the kiddy pools, where it will grow the duckweed, while the duckweed it cleaning the water..... then simply feed the fish the duckweed as needed. you can NEVER over feed, as whatever they dont eat, will simply wait for them without fowling the water as other feeds would.

you want the duckweed in different water, so the fish never eat it all. otherwise you wont have it to keep growing for you. a pond this might not matter but even then Id grow some in another tank or old bathtub just in case.

so it could be as simple as growing duckweed/algae in cheap kiddy pools to offer food and clean water to fish in 55 gallon drums. you could do this really cheaply if you wanted.

[PreservingThePast]

I assume that you have a way to oxygenate the water. A way to neutralize the clorine too. Fish and clorine do not mix well at all.

For more than ten years at our tackle store I cleaned refrigerated tanks containing bait fish on a daily basis, if not more frequently--yes, we had to go to the store even on Christmas to care for these. Even though there was a filtering system and a water circulation system, it was still necessary to remove the fish waste in the water.

Good Luck.

[Devil Soundwave]

Always been a open seas ginda guy.....Couldn't stand the thought of eating fish that will eat its own terds.....Just sayin'

Mine dont do that, I keep them well fed. at least not that Ive ever seen. Ive got to clean that stuff from the tank. i also have snails and clams in there eating some of that stuff.

Nearly all animals and fish eat their own turds except humans.

[tn-dave]

I wish you guys could see the Living with the Land Boat Ride at Epcot. Maybe a google search for pictures might give you some ideas. I wish I would have ridden this a couple of times and made a bunch of pics but it was a family day.

"A relaxing 13 minute boat ride takes you on...... Guests experience the struggles of the past and plans for farming in the future including Hydroponics, Aeroponics and Aquaculture. It's not just about fruits and veggies, fish farms are on display. Since The Land is a Disney restaurant supplier, You could very well be seeing your entree. Wonder where those Mickey shaped cucumbers in your salad came from? This is where they're grown."

[PreservingThePast]

I wish you guys could see the Living with the Land Boat Ride at Epcot. Maybe a google search for pictures might give you some ideas. I wish I would have ridden this a couple of times and made a bunch of pics but it was a family day.

"A relaxing 13 minute boat ride takes you on...... Guests experience the struggles of the past and plans for farming in the future including Hydroponics, Aeroponics and Aquaculture. It's not just about fruits and veggies, fish farms are on display. Since The Land is a Disney restaurant supplier, You could very well be seeing your entree. Wonder where those Mickey shaped cucumbers in your salad came from? This is where they're grown."

I've been through this attraction many, many times. It is a favorite, especially when the line isn't too long. They have the huge round tanks plus the tubes for the growing of the fish, eels, shrimp, alligators, etc. Not to mention all the cool vegetables and fruit that they are growing. Extremely educational. I highly recommend this attraction for anyone visiting WDW and Epcot.

[Treetop]

Okay... ran into some issues, but have them sorted out.

first the duckweed wouldnt grow in full sun. and I have a larger tank now and cant easily move it so until next year I had to play with algae which isnt as useful as duckweed. (working on duckweed for next year)

So heres the score. I was looking to see if I could recirculate the water, keep it clean AND grow the food for the fish. Pretty sure I explained earlier that growing land based plants offers many negatives. I will get into that more if someone is curious as to why, but one reason is it costs more also the land based plants need the nitrification cycle and it takes a LOT more infrastructure. the food is also nutrient deficient. better to grow it in soil... hence the duckweed useful for ALL my other animals including the fish, and things like daphnia and other zooplankton which are easy to grow. since im growing carp I can supplement with ANYTHING else actually.

Next year I will be expanding into also growing other plants useful for food for myself, while also conditioning the water.

So since the duckweed wasnt working, that was out. So for now I have food for the fish. doesnt cost a lot at all.

So back to algae... algae and duckweed are some of the few plants that can use the ammonia directly out of the water. since duckweed isnt working where im set up now Ive been playing with algae. To date I still often use the fish water for the garden and add more fresh de chlorinated water. I have however perfected cleaning the water with algae!!! Ive used test strips to ensure the water is indeed clean, and its easy to gauge this without test strips now that I know what to look for....

I cut the top off of a 60 gallon drum. I fill it with fish water. I "seed" it with this algae I have. the algae grow FAST. I also grow daphnia and moina and other zooplankton in there, and they eat bacteria and other such things. they feed themselves basically. each day I pull out some of the algae, aafter I wait two days for it to start growing well. then usually about 5-6 days into it the algae stops growing fast. at this point it is in pretty good shape (still measurable levels of ammonia but well into the ideal range cleaner then most ponds or lakes) at that point I simply scoop it out into the big tank with the fish. and scoop fish water back into the drum. let the process start out again.

Im now to the point Im going to test this without taking out water for the garden and adding freshwater. Im going to rely on the algae alone. Im going to be setting up atleast 10 sixty gallon drums for growing algae. It might take more Im not sure yet. I will add more if need be. My main tank it about 700 gallons. As I said if I had a shadier place then duckweed would be grown instead. Which is a great feed for all types of animals from ducks and chickens to rabbits or fish. Nutrient dense. this would be ideal as its nearly as efficient for this as algae but is more useful then the algae. thats fine though. I will work with that next year....

I also set up two 5 gallon buckets with many holes in them. I put sponges and cloth in between the two. I run a water pump through this as a filter for about an hour a day. It keeps the water clear. I can also feed it manually as Im doing other things outside or with my kids, and get enough filtration to keep the water in good shape. Really I dont NEED to do this. I have a full array of lifeforms in there that are turning any gunk to soil as they would in a pond. But if I dont I also need more ammonia removal and will not be able to maintain a truly low level as easy. a 60 gallon tank can be filter like this in a few minutes manually pretty easy.

so.... now it is just a matter of how many algae tanks I will need. Doing this with duckweed will make needing food for the fish unnecessary (although my zooplankton take a chunk out of that already) but as i said part of this was to see just how cheap this could be done without NEEDING new water. and honestly adding new water all the time isnt ideal. Lots of life in the water of a pond. never change more then a third of the water at a time.

anyway it looks like for the price of aeration, a pump for an hour a day, a simple cheap filter I made, and the fish, tanks, and a few other things like my zooplankton, clams and snails. You could get everything but the tanks nearly anywhere in the country from most lakes. although you might not have the IDEAL species for each, that doesnt matter. so you could do it for the price of the tanks if need be, which actually could be made from clay. At lower densities you dont need aeration either. for the filter dried grasses would work. My point being is you could set up such a system for anywhere from free to 2-3k and grow any amount of fish your willing to invest to grow, or take the time to do the work...... It can be very little work, or a lot depends how much money you have to do it. But yep, it can be done cheap if need be......... and if i was set up for duckweed rather then algae I wouldnt need to but fish food at all. although I can feed these particular fish just about anything including many scraps. although you do have to kinda "train" them to eat new foods sometimes.

should also point out that the zooplankton growing in with the algae will eat bacteria and other things. they breed FAST. so if they water has a lot of bacteria the grow to high numbers and lower the levels of these things i the same way it would happen in a lake. I also have tanks growing these purpsely without the algae. Its a very interesting set of lifeforms. on a good day I can harvest a few ounces of them from a kiddy pool. to feed them I drop in a small chunk of manure that makes bacteria grow. Then they fest, and bred like mad. clouds of them. i have varieties that evolved in ponds without fish, so they are especially efficient at growing and breeding not needing to spend much energy on defense, like most zooplankton do, they are also larger then most that are in a lake. about the size of a BB and bigger. the fish LOVE these things. It builds their immune systems to eat live foods. Its carps favorite food when they have a choice. and its cheap for me to produce. couple it with duckweed as I get that going, and Im golden.

Now you could do all this for tilapia as well by the way. But you need a permit for tilapia in my state. so I dont have those. Both fish are bottom feeders in the wild and will get a poor taste. But both can be pretty good raised in clean water and fed well. Carp get a bad rap but I keep reading they can be tasty if raised right. I will let you all know if that is true.

[Mossy]

I have the same interest as I cannot have chickens due to zoning in my community.

Has anyone looked into raising quail?

Bunch of info on the net. Years back, I saw an article about building a multi layer coop; each cage was a shelf. Total foot print was 4' by 4'. The quail are supposed to be quiet so long as they are in total darkness, and less likely to eat each other.

[Treetop]

I have the same interest as I cannot have chickens due to zoning in my community.

Has anyone looked into raising quail?

Bunch of info on the net. Years back, I saw an article about building a multi layer coop; each cage was a shelf. Total foot print was 4' by 4'. The quail are supposed to be quiet so long as they are in total darkness, and less likely to eat each other.

coturnix quail (these are from eurasia) are very easy to raise. Or domestic quail are much trickier as they need more space and dont lay egg nearly as well...

the coturnix quail is the most efficient egg layer per the amount of feed it gets. If I remember right off the top of my head its 2 pounds of feed to produce a pound of eggs, and 3 pounds of food per pound of eggs for chickens.....

they have some drawbacks though, despite being so domesticated they cannot hatch their own eggs anymore (another issues if TSHTF, though a bantam chicken could hatch them out for you) they are considered a game bird by many states, and regulated as they would our domestic quail species. so you cant freely get them in all states. I can get them here with a permit but I need to pay yearly for the permit and have my pens checked yearly and some other red tape, so I didnt get them.....

[psi]

Cool thread. At this science center near where I live there is an aquaculture demo where they have trout growing in a cylindrical, transparent tank maybe 3 or 4 feet wide and 8 feet tall. The water in the tank circulates cyclone style at fairly high speed so I guess the fish get as much exercise as they would in a much larger area of still water. No idea how much energy would be expended keeping the water moving like that but it seemed like there were quite a lot of fish in apparently good health for a tank that small.

[Mossy]

the coturnix quail ... they are considered a game bird by many states, and regulated as they would our domestic quail species. so you cant freely get them in all states. I can get them here with a permit but I need to pay yearly for the permit and have my pens checked yearly and some other red tape, so I didnt get them.....

I've heard people have tried to plant coturnix, but the populations never established. Probably because they migrate across the Med, Black Sea, etc, so they try to migrate south accross the Pacific Ocean or Gulf of Mexico. (glub glub)

[Treetop]

No I wouldnt imagine that would work to well mossy. they lost the instinct to brood so they cant hatch their own eggs. you could probably re teach them this trait if you really tried, perhaps using some of the smaller chicken breeds to show them how its done.... But as it is now, they would lay and fertilize eggs, and might be able to forage for themselves, but the mothers would sit on the egg for a few days then forget about it at best.....

[psi]

I found out there is a place not far from me that sells coturnix and bobwhite quail and eggs for prices that look pretty affordable, I doubt they ship the eggs internationally but if anyone is interested in seeing prices for reference: http://crazyquails.com/eggsforsale.html

[Treetop]

you can order both domestic and coturnix quail eggs on ebay for decent prices.... youll need an incubator though to. unless you have a real broody hen I guess...

But look into your states regs first. in some states you need permits. Others they are banned outright. In others there are no rules on it at all.... and your free to raise them as you would be chickens.....

you can get other quail then bobwhite on ebay to. But if your wanting quail for eggs or food you want the coturnix....

[Rodebaugh]

Zac, How about some photos of the set up. I would love to see this.

[Treetop]

Zac, How about some photos of the set up. I would love to see this.

Let me get some more details ironed out.... all in due time....

[Mossy]

No I wouldnt imagine that would work to well mossy. they lost the instinct to brood so they cant hatch their own eggs.

Coturnix have a dozen names: "Japanese quail", "Pilgrim quail", a bunch of others. The attempts to plant the quail failed even back in the early Colonial era, before they lost the brooding instinct. This and hogs were two of the first exotics the Europeans tried to plant in North America, on purpose. (Horses were, IMO, more of an accident. Who would intentionally lose his transportation?)

[Mossy]

first the duckweed wouldnt grow in full sun. and I have a larger tank now and cant easily move it so until next year I had to play with algae which isnt as useful as duckweed. (working on duckweed for next year)

Don't know if it would work, but you know how the outdoor garden departments use open slat roofs over their plants to keep down sun scald and reduce evaportative water loss? Using something like that might let you grow the duckweed, and reduce your water needs?

Give you a cool place to drink your beer, too.

[Treetop]

Well I was setting up to grow the floating algae for water cleaning as I said above, but before i did, I had a green water algae bloom. this is a type that makes that water green. Like in a farm pond. this can be dangerous because it can rob the oxygen at night. but, it DID clean up the ammonia overnight! which was nice.

Im now using the algae to grow mass amounts of the daphnia that I feed the fish. As they eat it, Ive circulated it back to the fish tank and circulated more green water to the zooplankton. this wasnt planned for but Im using it to great advantage and it was less work.

Still wanting to feed the fish, so since I still havent perfected the duckweed Im starting to loo into other plants carp like to eat. there are many but not realy any perfect ones....

a list I have so far includes (and probably not a good idea to put some of these things in ponds that connect to other water ways)

--- water hyacinth----- this will only grows in WARM water. but cooler zones can grow it in the summer and overwinter it in a sunny window indoors. It grows fast, suck alot of the harmful things out of the water. The carp will also eat the roots. very easy to grow.

---- anacharis--- this is also fast growing plant that will clean the water well due to that fast growth. this one is known as one of the best oxygenators, which is great for my set ups. carp love to eat this one. fish fry love to swim on it. carp love to lay eggs on it (good so i can move eggs to tanks their parents wont eat them) This one is hardy to zone 4. so thats good to. easier to care for over winter.....

----pickerelweed- carp eat it, about all i know. but Ive been ordering everything i can that carp are known to eat. so i got it. Want some diversity in their diets as im assure they agree.

----water celery. not a fast grower, but carp will eat it, and i can use it as a celery like spice if i want to. I figure a few plants in there would be fine. bit of filtration and diversity...

-----water cress.... this one grows pretty good I believe but not super fast. It need soil or a growing medium though so not super exciting. but its supposed to be pretty tasty as a cook green or small amounts in a salad. Carp eat it to....

--------water chestnuts, theres a long season one I can get, still trying to source the shorter season one I could grow. the shorter season one isnt supposed to be as tasty as the type most might know from asian stir frys, but its still supposed to be pretty good. guess I will see if I ever source it. "Water Caltrop" aka Eurasian water chestnut is the short season one

------ marsh betony-- dont know much but carp eat it....

----- cattails--- I got a few of these for filtration, and its roots are edible maybe i will try it sometime....

----pondweed--- this one I havent been able to source yet. (on ebay will look elsewhere eventually) supposed to be fast growing and common. Carp eat it. Id love to try it.

lots of others im sure... still looking

heres what im thinking now.... Ive ordered most of those listed above. Im thinking i can put some cinder blocks in the bottom in rows. spaces between them. Lots of places for fish to swim around and through. then straddle the two rows with buckets full of holes the fish cant get through. this would be much cheaper then other alternatives that let me grow the floating type plants with the fish even making my own of more common types people use for this. I can filter the fish water without much work. as the few that grow fast grow I can take them out and put them in with the fish to eat. from what Ive read covering a 1/3 to half the surface with the faster growing ones should keep the water fine by itself. i can do that just fine.

im also going to play with some floating plants the carp do not eat. this way i can further filter the water and cover the surface without ever needing to mess with those specific plants, beyond clearing some of them out as they grow.

not sure why i wasnt doing this before. I jumped in the the knowledge of duckweeds usefulness and ability to clean the water well, but i should of went for diversity from the start. Still working on perfecting the duckweed of course, it is very very useful for the fish and other animals. but this is much better. I should be able to greatly lesson my work while diversifying the fishes diet a bit. although probably not as high quality nutrition as the duckweed. fine by me though. Because it ill be free food for them, cant beat that.

[Treetop]

http://www.aire-dynamics.com/garden_pond_aerator.html

this is a windmill for aerating a tank or back yard "pond"......

Many companies make these for 2-3 acre ponds but I never saw one for a small pond. there are companies that make retro fits and such for ornamental windmills.
would cost about 600 for most I have seen. this one here is 300, and the company has a decent rep building the bigger ones. this is actually in my budget so I will have this before to long. I will still use my current electric pump, i just like having the back up. Perhaps if it does particularly well I will slowly switch over to all windmills. If it does as well as claimed it should work just fine but Id need a few for optimum performance of the fish- one could work in a pinch. I may try to mount it on my roof.... Only a 25 foot airhose though.