SHTF silver and gold testing

[NHsorter]

As one should expect under the current conditions, I have been reading about an increase in scammers selling fake gold and silver. In a SHTF situation, or even just an escalated economic meltdown, we can expect a sharp increase in these scams. So what is the best way to test PM's?

As the following thread discusses, an excellent portable gold tester is available:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1217&p=9310&hilit=silver+tester#p9310

But what is the best way to test for silver? I carry a magnet and a scale. I know that is not enough, and it won't work for good fakes. I am assuming that there is no sweet tester like the one above for silver.

What will you utilize (or what do you utilize) in order to confirm PM content in a world of skyrocketing prices?

[Mossy]

LOL, I wonder if that company is public or privately held?

[Kurr]

Chemistry.

Acids to test for silver purity are readily accesable.

http://www.ishor.com/TestGold.php

[didou]

I have a caliper, few scales and i'm working on saving every document that i stumble into that have the data of coins.
You can also test the dia-magnetic properties of the coin. Silver is dia-magnetic and you will be able to move your coin with a strong magnet without touching the coin (also work with high copper content).
I also bought a acid test for silver and try it on some item, it's cheap and efficient if it's for junk.

I'm not sure how much these fake are actually produce as of right now.

[Mossy]

I'm not sure how much these fake are actually produce as of right now.

Covered here before.

Answer?

"A whole bunch."

[TwoPenniesEarned]

How is a dia-magnetic test done again?

[didou]

Silver is not magnetic, but will reflect the magnetic field.
Just put a magnet near the coin without touching it and move it left and right. The silver will start to reflect the magnetic field and be repulsed by it and will move.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism

[neilgin1]

here's my "test"....pre-65 dimes, quarters and halves only. Peace and Morgans only. ASE's only. 40%'ers? 65-69 Kennedys only. IKES, those that weigh out at 24.1-6 only. those are the only silver i'll even look at...and if some git tries to plays games and pass off non silver as silver in a trade?...he gets one free pass, coz i will him tell him, (with my right hand under the table holding a shortie aimed up). "if i EVER see you around here again, pulling this crap, we're going to leave you where we find you, you just got your one free pass, so go on now"...and if he's stupid enough to be a local boy and pull that? that night, theres going to be a terrible house fire somewhere.

you might be thinking, "oh thats just bold talk on a cyber forum"...oh no. first of all, there wont be any "cyber forums", and second, i will not be trading alone, i got kin up here, i trust with my life, and this is precisely the stuff we've been working out, thinking about, deliberating. i'd give more thought to stepping on a wood roach, than i would dealing with some scamster passing off bad coin in trade, especially when our lives depending on being smart square deal traders, we been processing deer for many years, think we couldnt make a scamster go away in a grid down situation? that's why they made shovels and lime....well, besides truck gardening.

oh no...SHTF or grid down.....it's be stupid for anyone trying to pull stuff like that. no joke.

[Mossy]

For anyone who thinks Neil is over reacting, consider: In recent years, people could get food stamps and assorted other aid from the gov't. In the situation Neil is describing, there is no such federal mommy to run to in order to make things better. Theft and counterfeiting could kill the victims.

Horse and cattle theives were lynched in the 1800's for this reason, and because the courts were so far away that it took too much time away from making a living. (Anyone who is familiar with today's court system knows how long it can take for something to make it through, I expect Judge Lynch to make a comeback, even without a crash.)

[neilgin1]

the town policeMAN, like one guy, he'd either turn into "Sgt Schultz" of Hogans Heroe's fame..."i know NOTHING"...or he'd be so thankful that there were some stand up guys, he'd probably deputize a few guys...who knows.. the county sheriff would probably be in the dark, and if he DID hear something, he'd probably say "good, good riddance to bad rubbish"....

you mention horse theivery annd cattle rustling...also firebugs too....but i add one more that could (and is currently) tearing many a rural county apart, and that's meth and meth cookers. i have no truck with how a man or woman eases the pain of life, wants to put a buzz on, etc. i'm not some self righteous teetotaling prig, but brothers, meth is a whole different ball of wax. some county sheriffs keep seeing the same poor souls getting busted over the years and they have pictures to show the absolute devastation meth wreaks on a person...and its like the Exorcist, the movie...meth is just devil snot, and its real easy to cook up, and i swore as God is witness, and i'm not alone in this, we even smell that odor...and you CAN smell it easy, thats why they do it in far off trailers...we smell it, find where its cooking...same thing, trailer will go, and cookers will go, peaceable if they want..if they want...if not? well, thats their call.

and if folks think i'm overeracting?...just wait and see whats coming down the pike. i believe in Mercy and Grace and Love, with all my soul and heart, charity and goodwill shown to those who have not, but study up on King David, a man after God's Own heart, but when enough was enough, he got Old Testament rough, very quickly on his enemies and the wicked sons of hell.
nuff said.

[Mossy]

For meth cookers, I'm thinking a touch of Samual Colt's "latest work on social reform" (historical reference).

[schockergd]

I purchased 4 fake silver dollars off craigslist Thursday.


Ring Test - Check
Weight in hand test - Check
Apperance - 3/4 passed 1 had 'iffy' edge reeding
Weight on scale 3/4 were within accepted boundaries one was .2 grams below accepted tollerances
Acid test - All 4 failed , acid stated the coin were nickle.

[neilgin1]

I purchased 4 fake silver dollars off craigslist Thursday.


Ring Test - Check
Weight in hand test - Check
Apperance - 3/4 passed 1 had 'iffy' edge reeding
Weight on scale 3/4 were within accepted boundaries one was .2 grams below accepted tollerances
Acid test - All 4 failed , acid stated the coin were nickle.

that stinks, im sorry bud...i think its a heads up for all of his, be careful.
take heart, you'll get it back...somehow. neil

[Mossy]

I purchased 4 fake silver dollars off craigslist Thursday.
Ring Test - Check
Weight in hand test - Check
Apperance - 3/4 passed 1 had 'iffy' edge reeding
Weight on scale 3/4 were within accepted boundaries one was .2 grams below accepted tollerances
Acid test - All 4 failed , acid stated the coin were nickle.

Oh, man. I need to get that test kit.

[didou]

I purchased 4 fake silver dollars off craigslist Thursday.


Ring Test - Check
Weight in hand test - Check
Apperance - 3/4 passed 1 had 'iffy' edge reeding
Weight on scale 3/4 were within accepted boundaries one was .2 grams below accepted tollerances
Acid test - All 4 failed , acid stated the coin were nickle.

isn't the acid test useless here if they are nickel, they would stick on a magnet ?

Nickel stick to a magnet and CuNi will fail the diamagnetic test.
No need for the acid test here.

[didou]

I just made some quick test and it seem that some CuNi alloy will pass the diamagnetic test if there is too much copper in it. (compare a U.S. nickel 75%/25% with a U.S. dime 91.67%/8.33% to feel the difference)

But copper weight 8.94 g/cm3 and silver 10.49 g/cm3, 85% of the silver weight, will be easy to spot it on the scales/with a caliper

[didou]

This is a issue i have trouble with so i made more test.

First the ring test.
Nickel doesn't sound at all like silver, maybe you didn't do correctly or it wasn't nickel.
CuNi ring test may be misinterpreted as silver if you're not careful, in that case Ni weight 8.90 g/cm3 and copper weight 8.94 g/cm3, either size or weight would have been wrong by at least 84% (or 16% over). Take time to learn how to make the ring test correctly, if you're used to it, you can know when it's CuNi and when it's Ag

Appearance wouldn't have pass the test either, since silver reflect the light a lot more than Nickel, i'm used to handle both silver, CuNi and pure Ni coin, and they don't look alike when you have it in your hand under good light. I can usually know when the nickel i have is CuNi before i look at the date (i sort many nickel in Canada). Maybe the coin was plated, but in that case you would have seen it after using the needle to make a groove in it before pouring the acid on it, rendering the acid test useless and you would have seen it before with the magnet and weight/size before making a groove into the coin.

You didn't do the magnet test on these as i explain before.

So something is wrong in that story or you where careless, but the acid test wouldn't have been necessary to identify those as fake.

Don't get me wrong i'm all in for accuracy and i own a acid test for silver, but i don't think it is necessary most of the time to use it on coins, many cheaper ($0) test could be made, that don't damage the coin, and are very accurate even if not perfect.