2,000 points down...Black Tuesday

[neilgin1]

oop, not so fast...in the time it took me to write this point, the 500 went from being off 3 to off 12.....purty twiggy.

[neilgin1]

I'd expect the Fed and the ECB to coordinate and with or without fanfare, QE3 starts today, with the ECB doing their version.

right or wrong, they have no other choice, it'll be the mother of QE's. I'd expect the President with an array of bi-partisan Congressional leadership, with him to make a very public statement of their intent to get serious about debt reduction. taking the panels recco to make the 4 trln debt reduction. At this point, any tea party Republicans would be best served to not scorch the President, thats the reccomendation i would assume their staffs and other party luminaries are making at this time. Disarray between the two parties, right this second would be the very worst thing to do.

i would also think that the British military would start to get involved in the disturbances in the UK, and put an end to that. I would only hope the PM, has the wisdom to get the military involved. This was the first big tremor.

[68Camaro]

Agree QE3 in some form, regardless of name, starts. The rest of it is all "makes sense to do"; question is if they have the sense. I hope so. GIven their lack of other shown sense, I wish I could feel more certain.

[neilgin1]

when the fear seems TOTAL, thats the moment it begins to mitigate...oh sure, you're going to see some volatilty, and the die is cast, BUT , imo, the "earthquake' just happened..now the "first responders" do their thing.

[68Camaro]

when the fear seems TOTAL, thats the moment it begins to mitigate...oh sure, you're going to see some volatilty, and the die is cast, BUT , imo, the "earthquake' just happened..now the "first responders" do their thing.

Agree. But - I don't think the fear has seemed TOTAL yet. Many people are still unaware of the issue. News is really only starting to get a little panicky. The response today will be critical. Could be the turning point on a bottom. Or they could screw it up, delay it, appear indecisive, not have their act together, get more bad news from Europe or S&P. So could also be another bad day, with tomorrow being the the bottom and start up.

The Asian markets closed on an up note, and US futures up a bit. Those are the positive notes, along with suggestions of action.

Watch it closely.

[68Camaro]

Or I should have said some of the Asian markets closed on an up note. The Hang Seng tried to trend up in the afternoon, but ended up trending badly down again at the end, much like the US close yesterday. We'll see.

[neilgin1]

agree and disagree....agree that response today is the ballgame. Disagree that the fear wasnt total, within the whole financial/political community, the fear got total....and even anybody with a TV got saturated with the horror show.

what i'm PRESUMING is that leadership will kind of grow up today, and you'll see a imperative bi-partisanship. Dont think that DC wasnt watching London, and said, "oops, theres the abyss" and realize President bashing and partisan rancor is actually HARMFUL on 9 August, so look for a very public hand holding and soothing bi-partisan rhetoric and display. As i said, the smart move, among the tea party wing would be to adopt a low key statemanslike "we're all in this together" meme....thats the smart move....they'll save the blood sport political stuff for once we walk this thing back, thats just my read.

[neilgin1]

Or I should have said some of the Asian markets closed on an up note. The Hang Seng tried to trend up in the afternoon, but ended up trending badly down again at the end, much like the US close yesterday. We'll see.

Hang Seng always get weird...back in 87, those dunceski's made the absolutely stupid move of shutting down their exchange for FOUR days, which was the WORST thing they could of done, coz when it re-opened, OH! it was a major league blood bath...EPIC.

Europes the ball game now, and they're stabilizing, down 1 to 3 %, which is bad, but not catastrophic, as the pre open 500 is up 5.00, which considering everything isnt that bad.

[68Camaro]

I hope so Neil. Let's hope so. I'll never be enough prepared for what could happen.

Even if they are successful in that, to the best they can be - even if we back off from the abyss as we hope - it's still a time to be cautious for people who are market novices. Market may still go down for a time. I think we've got recession part 2 underway, and even if they start acting on that the economy is fundamentally unhealthy.

[neilgin1]

I hope so Neil. Let's hope so. I'll never be enough prepared for what could happen.

Even if they are successful in that, to the best they can be - even if we back off from the abyss as we hope - it's still a time to be cautious for people who are market novices. Market may still go down for a time. I think we've got recession part 2 underway, and even if they start acting on that the economy is fundamentally unhealthy.

oh for sure! total agreement...but its all like having a knock down drag out fight with the old lady the night before.....when you wake up in the morning, you best serve her coffee and breakfast, be contrite, and ask if some marriage counseling is in order...then say "sorry, that was my fault"....even if it wasnt...sometimes you just gotta eat a [shucks] sandwish and say "yummy".

[68Camaro]

Don't like posting in my own threads when no one else does, so if no one else wants to play in them I'll go back to those of Ray, Neil, Country, etc

PMs are still up. Silver survived yet another dip; back into the 38s. Gold still chugging along at record levels in the 1740-1780 range; and people are still buying. The CNBC pundits (listened to them for the first time in years, on XM while driving today) don't like gold; means people don't like their stocks, and they are seemingly incredulous that anyone would buy it. Nothing has fundamentally improved in the country, or the world - rather the opposite. Except for the Brits putting 3x the police on the street, they aren't have any better of a day than yesterday. The Eurobanks are screwed. I'm more and more convinced it is one of more Eurobanks and/or one of their countries that is going to be the straw at the tipping point. We *might* still have an up day on the US market tomorrow, or flat. But come Thursday reality will set in again and (not all, but enough) people will realize that they are still screwed. Gold will still be up, and people will be confused by that. "Hmmm, maybe I'm missing something, they will think. Maybe I need some of that also." Be careful out there, folks. I am looking around for possible bargins to buy on the market, but not comfortable at all. It'll have to be a heck of a bargin to cause me to buy - and I will surprise myself if I do.

[Rodebaugh]

Well I sold ALL equities from our 403B and 401K's today. To hell with the missed potential gains. Should have done it a month ago. I don't want to say that again in Sept.

98% cash. 2% long AA and SDS.....(one is a product of greed). Not sure If I have ever been this "Cash" before.

Not Buying or selling gold, selling and buying silver as always, thats pretty much it.

[justj2k78]

Well I sold ALL equities from our 403B and 401K's today. To hell with the missed potential gains. Should have done it a month ago. I don't want to say that again in Sept.

98% cash. 2% long AA and SDS.....(one is a product of greed). Not sure If I have ever been this "Cash" before.

Not Buying or selling gold, selling and buying silver as always, thats pretty much it.

I'm a buy and holder as far as my retirement accounts go. I've got a loooooong horizon, so I'm pretty much down for whatever in my S&P index fund. Go Bogle!

[beauanderos]

Well I sold ALL equities from our 403B and 401K's today. To hell with the missed potential gains. Should have done it a month ago. I don't want to say that again in Sept.

98% cash. 2% long AA and SDS.....(one is a product of greed). Not sure If I have ever been this "Cash" before.

Not Buying or selling gold, selling and buying silver as always, thats pretty much it.

Nice timing! Hope you caught the major move at the close

[Rodebaugh]

thanks but I chalk it up as poor timing......something I should have done a month ago................Greed

[theo]

Don't like posting in my own threads when no one else does, so if no one else wants to play in them I'll go back to those of Ray, Neil, Country, etc

PMs are still up. Silver survived yet another dip; back into the 38s. Gold still chugging along at record levels in the 1740-1780 range; and people are still buying. The CNBC pundits (listened to them for the first time in years, on XM while driving today) don't like gold; means people don't like their stocks, and they are seemingly incredulous that anyone would buy it. Nothing has fundamentally improved in the country, or the world - rather the opposite. Except for the Brits putting 3x the police on the street, they aren't have any better of a day than yesterday. The Eurobanks are screwed. I'm more and more convinced it is one of more Eurobanks and/or one of their countries that is going to be the straw at the tipping point. We *might* still have an up day on the US market tomorrow, or flat. But come Thursday reality will set in again and (not all, but enough) people will realize that they are still screwed. Gold will still be up, and people will be confused by that. "Hmmm, maybe I'm missing something, they will think. Maybe I need some of that also." Be careful out there, folks. I am looking around for possible bargins to buy on the market, but not comfortable at all. It'll have to be a heck of a bargin to cause me to buy - and I will surprise myself if I do.

I agree. This is a very dangerous market. Our policy makers do not know what to do next and its getting harder to discern which (if any) asset prices are determined by market forces and which are manipulated. I'm sure its apparant to most us that government policy discourages people from holding real wealth; however with this behind-the scenes manuvuring and rent seeking behavior, the average citizen is also denied something just as important; access to reliable information to make sound decisions.

[beauanderos]

Don't like posting in my own threads when no one else does, so if no one else wants to play in them I'll go back to those of Ray, Neil, Country, etc

PMs are still up. Silver survived yet another dip; back into the 38s. Gold still chugging along at record levels in the 1740-1780 range; and people are still buying. The CNBC pundits (listened to them for the first time in years, on XM while driving today) don't like gold; means people don't like their stocks, and they are seemingly incredulous that anyone would buy it. Nothing has fundamentally improved in the country, or the world - rather the opposite. Except for the Brits putting 3x the police on the street, they aren't have any better of a day than yesterday. The Eurobanks are screwed. I'm more and more convinced it is one of more Eurobanks and/or one of their countries that is going to be the straw at the tipping point. We *might* still have an up day on the US market tomorrow, or flat. But come Thursday reality will set in again and (not all, but enough) people will realize that they are still screwed. Gold will still be up, and people will be confused by that. "Hmmm, maybe I'm missing something, they will think. Maybe I need some of that also." Be careful out there, folks. I am looking around for possible bargins to buy on the market, but not comfortable at all. It'll have to be a heck of a bargin to cause me to buy - and I will surprise myself if I do.

I agree. This is a very dangerous market. Our policy makers do not know what to do next and its getting harder to discern which (if any) asset prices are determined by market forces and which are manipulated. I'm sure its apparant to most us that government policy discourages people from holding real wealth; however with this behind-the scenes manuvuring and rent seeking behavior, the average citizen is also denied something just as important; access to reliable information to make sound decisions.

And NOW you realize one of the important reasons they do so. I've long said that part of the manipulation is instilling a false sense of familiarity with the expected progression (two forward, one back) so that, at some point... after once again smashing the commodities markets and causing not-so-strong hands into relinquishing their grip in desperate capitulation... that they will then activate their long-intended agenda of transferring ALL the wealth to their pockets by stepping into the markets, and BUYING all the available precious metal. It will be ten steps forward... and no looking back. Those who sold predicting a subsequent pullback will be left wringing their hands in frustration after having taken a quick profit. But "No," you say, JPMorgan could never cover their shorts as it would bankrupt them? Ha! Bullionshit! JPMorgan IS the Fed, number one... but get this. Not only will they not go bankrupt... but YOU will pay the bill if they do! Ever heard of too big to fail? Only it won't be JPMorgan that goes under... it will be some tiny bank they acquired that they proceed to dump all their short positions on... and then THAT bank will default on their obligations! This will not only enrage you, as it should, but will catalyze a global derivatives domino effect of collapse of counterparties to the fourteen hundred quadrillion in derivatives extant. Think precious metals will soar in price then? They will, but no one will have an accurate idea of their worth (beyond priceless) because the banks will be closed and the brokerage houses shuttered! It wouldn't surprize me at all if, soon, aborted "terrorist cells," with "plans to set off a suitcase nuke" or somesuch other crap, is broken up and... lo and behold, what will they find along with the explosives... but a stash of silver and gold! Does it really take much imagination to consider what happens after that? With the all-invasive powers of search and seizure that Homeland Security already wields under the Patriot Act and the RICO statutes? You, forum members, are all terrorists.

[68Camaro]

Yeah - well, hmmm. What a post to wake up to. I wish I could tell you you were full of s**t, but I can't. We have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. All the above is possible. Some of the above suggests that TPTB are smarter than I think they are, but much of the same could happen simply by them stumbling into the same position through some other combination of their own greed and stupidity.

[beauanderos]

Yeah - well, hmmm. What a post to wake up to. I wish I could tell you you were full of s**t, but I can't. We have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. All the above is possible. Some of the above suggests that TPTB are smarter than I think they are, but much of the same could happen simply by them stumbling into the same position through some other combination of their own greed and stupidity.

I'm not just dreamin this stuff up. Opinions are always formed on the basis of speculative wondering and a grain of truth. In my case, I'm a reader of Jeffrey Nielsen's posts on BullionBullsCanada.com, who has written a number of times theorizing similar thoughts. I wish, as well, I could consider his musings preposterous, but we never know WHAT might happen under dire circumstance, perhaps under martial law. It'll be interesting to watch how Great Britain handles their problem (though I feel they deal with their matters with much greater restraint and decorum than would we) and recognize that what they are experiencing is merely a small-scale precursor of a cancerous societal affliction that is swift-spreading. If they don't quell the unrest rapidly, they will be overwhelmed if the chaos erupts... and anarchy will ensue. It CAN happen anywhere... and the scary part is... this is all unfolding much sooner than I thought it would.

[neilgin1]

0617 hours CST....it feels to me, that the "partiers" swilled the punch, got drunk and today is hangover day, my gut tells me equities are going to slammed.
if someone was long stock, or day trading the bounce, the last hour of trade yesterday was the time to unload...get flat stocks.
i have no skin in the game, the only skin i have, was to weigh out 62 proof silver Ikes...some beautiful coins, just about 20 toz's, all of them 65 to 67's, but one unusual brown IKE, as you all know, a 40% silver Ike, remember, is always uncirc, and should weigh in at 24.6 gms, but they are all over the map....range from 24.1-25.0...and these are all clean uncircs, proofs in this case, but ONE proof, weighed in at 22.5 gms..which was ....interesting. stupid story.

but i just wanted to pin up something interesting i stumbled on ..there's this fellow Max Keiser, suppposedly "tells it like it is", but the guys gone over to the "other side"..in this case he's got a program on RT..."Russia Today" (yeh, like RT doesnt have an agenda...commie bastards...maybe it aint the soviet union anymore, but the russians are still the russians, and their version of capitalism is "hooray for me and FU"...maybe they passed that virus..sorry, guess i still got cold warrior in me, but i dont think the cold war ever ended, it just got colder)...anyway, this guy sits and snipes at the USA, BUT he did something something interesting, listen to the first 2 minutes; he posits, that within 90 days, look for a false flag terror event in the US...which wouldnt seem THAT far fetched, seeing how desperate TPTB have become:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxgBQ5IrgcA

imo, the FED just "told" us we got 1 more year to get prepped. get out of the cities, get 100% long tangibles, thats just my read.

Today Wednesday is going to be a bad day on the stock market...silver?...i dunno, but i'm long, and dont CARE where "they" post the price....to me, TODAY, every ounce is worth a $100 minimum....and even then i wouldnt sell..now i'm going to go get "long" firewood, that splitter was the best grand i ever spent...and yeh, the old feller next property over is gonna sell me his tractor, got a bucket up front, and a 3 pointer and PTO AND a roll bar..gon need that...lol

stay strong RC'ers, neil

[beauanderos]

Neil, I agree with your fervor and most of your rationale. But I'm gonna choose to differ with you on RT. I'm glad that a venue exists to hear interviews you won't hear broadcast by American media (whatever the former soviets agenda is)... I feel more "propaganda" is spread by our own side to keep the wool over the sheeple's eyes than any disinformation promulgated by Putin and his gang. Now, for sure, it wasn't always that way, and the Russkies definitely had their moment in history where you wouldn't want to trust them as far as you could toss them... unfortunately, I feel alot of our own leaders now fall into that same category. I am by no means defending them, just sayin I like the opportunity to hear opposing viewpoints... and then make up my own mind.

[Treetop]

i also have no doubt RT has "agendas".... but feel free to show me a media source who doesnt? Im not even going to bother waiting for someone to answer that because it doesnt exist..... Ive often wondered about RTs motives, but I know foxes, and nbc, and abc and cnns motives and it appears to be herding me along like a child. Does RT want to break that programing? make me distrust my government....

NEWSFLASH.... i havent trusted our government since I was a child!!! I cant stand liars. I cant stand thieves. cant stand them. Ive always had a knack for "reading" people, and am pretty good at it most of the time actually. I remember watching bush sr as a kid looking into the camera, with his sick little smirk, telling us to read his lips, no new taxes. this is a single example, but i knew right there he was a complete and total liar. hardly his biggest lie, but I was horrified at the time. i couldnt figure out why anyone took him seriously. he didnt believe himself, and either do the bulk of these globalist joksters.

[neilgin1]

Neil, I agree with your fervor and most of your rationale. But I'm gonna choose to differ with you on RT. I'm glad that a venue exists to hear interviews you won't hear broadcast by American media (whatever the former soviets agenda is)... I feel more "propaganda" is spread by our own side to keep the wool over the sheeple's eyes than any disinformation promulgated by Putin and his gang. Now, for sure, it wasn't always that way, and the Russkies definitely had their moment in history where you wouldn't want to trust them as far as you could toss them... unfortunately, I feel alot of our own leaders now fall into that same category. I am by no means defending them, just sayin I like the opportunity to hear opposing viewpoints... and then make up my own mind.

i agree completely with you Ray..i just dont like russians...cossacks and czars to be specific...our own media? walking haircuts, i always did like Rob McNeil and Jim Lerher...but that age is GONE...i do like Kai Rysdahl on radio at "Marketplace"....dang, a wild turkey did a stroll not 15 feet from this window...crept to out to take a "look"man, they spook easy...didnt get a "look", oh well...lot of critters feel easy and safe strolling out back....thats gooood....fall is coming.

[neilgin1]

i also have no doubt RT has "agendas".... but feel free to show me a media source who doesnt? Im not even going to bother waiting for someone to answer that because it doesnt exist..... Ive often wondered about RTs motives, but I know foxes, and nbc, and abc and cnns motives and it appears to be herding me along like a child. Does RT want to break that programing? make me distrust my government....

NEWSFLASH.... i havent trusted our government since I was a child!!! I cant stand liars. I cant stand thieves. cant stand them. Ive always had a knack for "reading" people, and am pretty good at it most of the time actually. I remember watching bush sr as a kid looking into the camera, with his sick little smirk, telling us to read his lips, no new taxes. this is a single example, but i knew right there he was a complete and total liar. hardly his biggest lie, but I was horrified at the time. i couldnt figure out why anyone took him seriously. he didnt believe himself, and either do the bulk of these globalist joksters.

i hardly trust anybody...theres only person around here, i implicity trust and thats my brother...i LIKE a lot of people, but you have to keep your cards close to the vest, i say...first prints, Dow down 323...just as i thought.

[Treetop]

I certainly dont "like" russia either. ive got no desire to be a commie or a fascist for that matter. yet i watch my government head further that way by the day. without a doubt we have our own ruling class now. Looking out for themselves not the best ways to serve their constituents.

i even wonder if russia might invade one day, and Ive studied this issue to some degree.... i actually think they might. as crazy as I will sound to many when i say this.... I think many of our globalists leaders will LET them. try to knock americans of their delusion that we ever actually had self determination and freedom. Beecause those american values are one of the bigger blocks in the way of the globalist agenda imo, and these fools have little care about borders. they are globalists. that pesky ideal of freedom is a negative to these fools. as they work on getting their global taxes in place among other things, all without ever proving co2 altered climate (it sure didnt in earths historic past despite the propaganda)..... I best stop now...