Friedman on inflation and alternative currencies

[Economist]

"It takes very high rates of inflation--rates well up in the double digits that persist for years--before people will stop using the money that is so obviously inflating. And when they do lose faith in the fiction, they do not revert straight to barter. No, they adopt substitute currencies. The substitute currencies in most inflations in history have been gold, silver, or copper specie, often, as during the American Revolution, in the form of coins of foreign countries. What's more, people may not abandon paper altogether: they may turn instead to paper money that has not been overissued."

Friedman, Milton. 1994. "The Mystery of Money" in Money Mischief

[neilgin1]

wisdom and history would seem to buttress that statement. Thanks, neil

[BOHICA]

"It takes very high rates of inflation--rates well up in the double digits that persist for years--before people will stop using the money that is so obviously inflating. And when they do lose faith in the fiction, they do not revert straight to barter. No, they adopt substitute currencies. The substitute currencies in most inflations in history have been gold, silver, or copper specie, often, as during the American Revolution, in the form of coins of foreign countries. What's more, people may not abandon paper altogether: they may turn instead to paper money that has not been overissued."

Friedman, Milton. 1994. "The Mystery of Money" in Money Mischief

What about inflation rates in the triple, quadruple and qunituple digits? Doesn't take long to lose faith at those rates (i.e. Weimar and Zimbabwe).

[silverflake]

Have any of you ever read about weimer republic Germany during the early 1920's? The money began inflating so fast that the people who did have the 'foresight' tried to buy gold and silver until there was none to be had (or at least no one would accept the hyperinflated Mark) so then, if they could afford to, they bought whatever they could of value. Those who still had some 'wealth' bought pianos (yes pianos!). From there it was downhill to the point where people bought anything not made of German paper (bedpans and metal hairbrushes were very popular). I still believe that all fiat currency returns to its intrinsic value (ZERO) but despite my own prepping, I don't think the dollar is going to fail SOON. Oh yes, it will fail, but the time frame might be longer than we think. By the way, as far as a one-world-currency, some one, in one of the chat rooms about 2-3 weeks ago posted a link to the IMF. It had a PDF document from an April 2010 meeting of the G8 or G20 or whoever addressing the worlds money reserves. In it, on page 4 was a scenario with a generic time frame set up of 'short term plans', medium term plans' and 'long term plans'. The bubble in the 'long term plan' category was, drum roll please, one-world-currency. Take it for what its worth but it did make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Sorry I don't have the link. Anyone else remember? It might have been in the paper money forums - Best Fiat Currency - or something like that.
You guys are truly stimulating and thought provoking.
Keep the faith.

[didou]

History is a great teacher, but i think the scenario we are living in never happen before.
There is no where to go today, as all currency seem to fail at the same time.
Never country have been so much interconnected and importation and exportation have exploded and are higher than ever before, every country now rely on each other for basic necessity like oil (heating/food/transportation/...).

I think we need to be careful comparing what we have now with what happen in the past.
For these past event, either food was grow locally without the use of oil OR every other country on the planet wasn't failing at the same time.
This time it may be different.

[BOHICA]

If you search the web you can still find copies of "When money dies: The nightmare of the Weimar collapse" that covers this topic very well. You can even track down a PDF copy if you look for it.

[Copper Catcher]

http://www.imf.org/external/np/pp/eng/2010/041310.pdf

Page 4 list on chart global currency.

I talked about this a long time ago as well in a post on here September 2010:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=483

[shinnosuke]

As taxpayers we are financing the demise of our sovereignty through the funding of the IMF and the BIS. The people in charge don't intend for there to be "countries" in terms of free and independent nations. According to their plan, there will only be entities that belong to a world government, with a world currency. This is obviously a lot bigger issue than: Who ya gonna vote for next time, the Democrat or the Republican? They're almost all completely complicit in this treachery anyway.

[Mossy]

In Zimbabwe, they kept using paper because they could find someone to take it off their hands.

"One world currency"? (shudder) Probably under the control of the UN. What would that best be called? "A Klaven of Kleptocrats"?

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

http://www.imf.org/external/np/pp/eng/2010/041310.pdf

Page 4 list on chart global currency.

I talked about this a long time ago as well in a post on here September 2010:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=483

Thanks, Copper Catcher. That is what my wife has been telling me for about 12 years now. We are headed to a one world government with a one world currency. I showed her the report with the graph.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

"It takes very high rates of inflation--rates well up in the double digits that persist for years--before people will stop using the money that is so obviously inflating. And when they do lose faith in the fiction, they do not revert straight to barter. No, they adopt substitute currencies. The substitute currencies in most inflations in history have been gold, silver, or copper specie, often, as during the American Revolution, in the form of coins of foreign countries. What's more, people may not abandon paper altogether: they may turn instead to paper money that has not been overissued."

Friedman, Milton. 1994. "The Mystery of Money" in Money Mischief

Man, if you don't jump in right now and hoard it, there will not be any left to find come the double digit inflation we will all see one day.

I vividly remember the last time the prime interest rate was over 20%. Thousands went bankrupt. It took 20 years for things to get back up to the same level of hourly wage for Johnny Paycheck in my region of the country. I think we will see this again, too soon.

[Know Common Cents]

The US buck is in a race to the bottom with the Euro and the Pound. As they continue to gain momentum in this spiral (think flushing swirl) there's no chance of returning to what was the so-called norm of several years ago.

Gold and silver in any form will be the defacto currency of the realm. These are internationally recognized as having intrinsic value and a method by which to stabilize their wealth. There will also be a second tier of exchange. It may be a bartering system for goods or services or an item that's recognized by the recipient for its value to them. This could be a bushel of corn, but could also be a bottle of Jack Daniels, carton of smokes or a box of 9mm ammo.

We can speculate all we want about how we'd function in a Weimar Republic environment, but that's just the beginning. Our greatest treasure is common sense, an understanding of cause and effect, the ability to quickly communicate with people who may not initially understand what you're trying to say and logical thinking. Oh yes. Don't forget about love for family and friends that'll spark a wildfire of courage in most situations and guts for the rest.

Most of the GDP (Generally Dumb Public) won't have a clue how to function in the new environment. What's REALLY important to you?

[balz]

"It takes very high rates of inflation--rates well up in the double digits that persist for years--before people will stop using the money that is so obviously inflating. And when they do lose faith in the fiction, they do not revert straight to barter. No, they adopt substitute currencies. The substitute currencies in most inflations in history have been gold, silver, or copper specie, often, as during the American Revolution, in the form of coins of foreign countries. What's more, people may not abandon paper altogether: they may turn instead to paper money that has not been overissued."

Friedman, Milton. 1994. "The Mystery of Money" in Money Mischief

Man, if you don't jump in right now and hoard it, there will not be any left to find come the double digit inflation we will all see one day.

I vividly remember the last time the prime interest rate was over 20%. Thousands went bankrupt. It took 20 years for things to get back up to the same level of hourly wage for Johnny Paycheck in my region of the country. I think we will see this again, too soon.

I think you are right. What do you think about copper pennies as a good everyday currency for groceries and everything like it? I mean: people won't trade Ag oz for grocery... that would be like paying with a 1000$ bill today...

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

"It takes very high rates of inflation--rates well up in the double digits that persist for years--before people will stop using the money that is so obviously inflating. And when they do lose faith in the fiction, they do not revert straight to barter. No, they adopt substitute currencies. The substitute currencies in most inflations in history have been gold, silver, or copper specie, often, as during the American Revolution, in the form of coins of foreign countries. What's more, people may not abandon paper altogether: they may turn instead to paper money that has not been overissued."

Friedman, Milton. 1994. "The Mystery of Money" in Money Mischief

Man, if you don't jump in right now and hoard it, there will not be any left to find come the double digit inflation we will all see one day.

I vividly remember the last time the prime interest rate was over 20%. Thousands went bankrupt. It took 20 years for things to get back up to the same level of hourly wage for Johnny Paycheck in my region of the country. I think we will see this again, too soon.

I think you are right. What do you think about copper pennies as a good everyday currency for groceries and everything like it? I mean: people won't trade Ag oz for grocery... that would be like paying with a 1000$ bill today...

I hoard a small amount of copper (and brass pennies, too) and will add to it as time allows. I also hoard lead, and aluminum. There are a lot of good discussions about copper pennies in the copper bullion forum.

[balz]

Yeah I know, but I'd like to get opinions from other people as well as we mostly discuss tricks about the HOW to get more pennies rather than the WHY!