Security

[balz]

How do you keep your silver safe?

I'd like to buy more but security is really an issue.

I don't trust banks. It is possible to hide it really well, but what about a fire... can silver melt?

I prefer gold over silver, but it seems to me it is much more easier to hide 2-3 ounces of gold than 150 onces of silver!

My two zinc cents.

[Kurr]

Ammo can, shovel, some midnight gardening.

[:)]

[balz]

Sounds good when you don't live in an apartment...

[justj2k78]

Sure silver can melt. You can get yourself a flame resistant safe, different ratings for different amount of time it will protect its contents from heat.

You want something that can be bolted to the floor, I don't know if this is doable, as you mentioned you live in an apartment, and holes in the floor may be a no-no.

You're #1 line of security is your mouth. Do not open it. Don't tell your friends. Don't tell your best friend. Don't tell someone you think might be impressed. Don't tell ANY WOMAN who you are not married to. This is something you know about only.

For example - my wife knows what we have. That's it. Not my kids, not my parents, not my friends. My wife. And she knows that this is info is not for public consumption. And my wife knows, because should something happen to me, it's on her to execute the investment plan for the family.

There's my security schpeal.

[balz]

Thanks for the tips justj2k78. Basically this is exactly the same for me: only my girlfriend know what I do. And our relation is serious.

I regret not doing only only thread as the two I have right now in this forum are linked. I had to give personal information and my adress to Kitco to buy some rounds of silver. I don't like it a lot. It seems to me this is breaking the rule #1.

Moreover, I know about flame resistant safe, but so far after extensive research on the net I've found that the best places to hide the stuff may not be in a place where you can put a much larger flame resistant safe (even if it is a small one). Also, I am not sure if that flame resistant safe can protect the rounds for a long enough period of time...

What happens if there is a fire without such safe? It melts, ok, but can you recover the silver after the fire somehow?

I know this may sound like a silly question, but when you decide to buy real money and not keeping it at the bank, it seems important to me.

P.S. Sorry for having two threads on the same subject.

[mr18]

I agree with justj2k78 about telling people. In my case, I too live in an apartment and have a Fire resistant safe I bought at target. My wife and parents are the only people that know about my silver fever. I keep half my bullion in my safe and half my bullion in another portable safe in my parents attic. As far as junk silver with the exception of WL halves, SL quarters and merucry dimes, those are in a jar that look just like a change jar. If I ever get robbed, first thing they will look is for cash, the safe is tucked away over a bunch of boxes in the closet so its a hassle to get to. I intentionally leave rolled up dollar bills as a decoy and no thief will ever think a change jar is valuable.

[balz]

I agree with justj2k78 about telling people. In my case, I too live in an apartment and have a Fire resistant safe I bought at target. My wife and parents are the only people that know about my silver fever. I keep half my bullion in my safe and half my bullion in another portable safe in my parents attic. As far as junk silver with the exception of WL halves, SL quarters and merucry dimes, those are in a jar that look just like a change jar. If I ever get robbed, first thing they will look is for cash, the safe is tucked away over a bunch of boxes in the closet so its a hassle to get to. I intentionally leave rolled up dollar bills as a decoy and no thief will ever think a change jar is valuable.

I've read that putting stuff under boxes in a closet is one of the most dangerous thing to do because while you may think it takes a long time to get there (because you don't want to break your things at first) a burglar on adrenaline (or drugs) WILL go there at first and get everything out...

Of course I might be wrong...

And this is my main concern. I had the idea of a fire resistant safe, but I think it may give the burglar an easier target than hiding the stuff elsewhere.

What do you think about this?

[Treetop]

to find my stash someone would first need to find he treasure map. after that it is an elaborate scavenger hunt facing many riddles and physical obstacles. Only the brave or true of heart could find it.....

[ardorlan]

best way to keep your silver safe is not to show it to anyone, and to not talk about it.

[balz]

best way to keep your silver safe is not to show it to anyone, and to not talk about it.

Do you trust the guys at Kitco which have your address and know what you bought?

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in Canada we have to prove our identity and address to buy any PM and they keep that in a record...

[Cu Penny Hoarder]

Do NOT keep it at a bank in a safe deposit box. If we have a SHTF scenario, you will not be able to access the goods. The bank will probably be closed to prevent bank runs.

Most secure is segregated vault storage (ie. Brinks), but that will cost you. If you can't afford that, a sturdy, heavy fireproof (2 hr minimum) safe, bolted to the floor, or cemented into a wall is the way to go.

If you don't have one, get an alarm installed in the house. It will not prevent a smash and grab robbery, but it limits the amount of time they get to spend in the house. The loud alarm will also alert neighbors.

If you don't have one, buy a gun(s) and lots of ammo. Learn how to use it and clean it. I always keep a loaded Glock .45 on my nightstand when I go to bed. It's within arms reach at all times... even when I am awake.

Last but not least... DO NOT TELL ANYONE. Do not trust your friends. Do not tell your girlfriends. Do not tell your wife because wives become vindictive when '[shucks] happens'... and '[shucks]' always happens sooner or later. If/when she wants a divorce, guess what she's going to ask for? Better yet, stay single and you won't have to hide anything -lol.

[ardorlan]

best way to keep your silver safe is not to show it to anyone, and to not talk about it.

Do you trust the guys at Kitco which have your address and know what you bought?

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in Canada we have to prove our identity and address to buy any PM and they keep that in a record...

I pay cash, at the coin shop, he doesn't know my name, charges 5% over spot.
if you have over 5,000$ in assets bought from online, Yeah, I would worry about it.

The best thing if it has to be known what you have, is an insurance policy and the cheapest place the insurance policy issuers will let you put it, of course this also has risk, the insurance policy could go out of business, the bank could close the vault. etc..

My home owners insurance only covers up to 1,500 in PMs (that I keep at the house) any more then that and well the prices goes up way to much.

I don't think I have a good enough answer for you.

[ardorlan]

houses/apartment often have hidden spaces like under/next to heating ducts.

[balz]

best way to keep your silver safe is not to show it to anyone, and to not talk about it.

Do you trust the guys at Kitco which have your address and know what you bought?

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in Canada we have to prove our identity and address to buy any PM and they keep that in a record...

I pay cash, at the coin shop, he doesn't know my name, charges 5% over spot.
if you have over 5,000$ in assets bought from online, Yeah, I would worry about it.

The best thing if it has to be known what you have, is an insurance policy and the cheapest place the insurance policy issuers will let you put it, of course this also has risk, the insurance policy could go out of business, the bank could close the vault. etc..

My home owners insurance only covers up to 1,500 in PMs (that I keep at the house) any more then that and well the prices goes up way to much.

I don't think I have a good enough answer for you.

The coin shop seems like a good idea. Buying slowly and consistenly...

I don't want insurance company to know I have PM either. The more people know I have PM, the more people may be interested in those PMs.

I need to find a good hiding spot. So far I have (well it's easier because I don't have much PM yet) but I have a hard time finding a good sport for burglar AND large enough for a fire retardant safe...

[mr18]

I agree with justj2k78 about telling people. In my case, I too live in an apartment and have a Fire resistant safe I bought at target. My wife and parents are the only people that know about my silver fever. I keep half my bullion in my safe and half my bullion in another portable safe in my parents attic. As far as junk silver with the exception of WL halves, SL quarters and merucry dimes, those are in a jar that look just like a change jar. If I ever get robbed, first thing they will look is for cash, the safe is tucked away over a bunch of boxes in the closet so its a hassle to get to. I intentionally leave rolled up dollar bills as a decoy and no thief will ever think a change jar is valuable.

I've read that putting stuff under boxes in a closet is one of the most dangerous thing to do because while you may think it takes a long time to get there (because you don't want to break your things at first) a burglar on adrenaline (or drugs) WILL go there at first and get everything out...

Of course I might be wrong...

And this is my main concern. I had the idea of a fire resistant safe, but I think it may give the burglar an easier target than hiding the stuff elsewhere.

What do you think about this?

I live in a nice looking apartment complex where there are alot of kids and the moms are always home, I do not fear a break in, I do however not come home with the jingling sound of silver and the boxes of pennies i go through, I place them in a back pack and when I sort I do it with closed doors and windows. I also have a vicious dog LOL its a medium sized dog that loves everyone, but the burglar will think twice. Anyway, too much precaution sometimes does make you too paranoid. I had a new accord once and I babied that car, maintenance every three months and everything done at the dealership. 10 years later I bought another new accord and get the oil change at Jiffy lube every 5 to 6K and performance is the same, what Im telling you is if it happens (get robbed), it happens. It will hurt but you move on. Do what I said previously, dont put all your eggs in one basket

[justj2k78]

It's good that you're concerned about safety, but at this point, I think you're over thinking. Here's the entirety of my security.

A) I don't talk about what I have (which isn't much).
B) I lock my doors.
C) I have 3 dogs, 2 of them are good sized, the third makes a crapload of noise.
D) I have a hidden, secure safe in my house that would take some time to find and break in to.
E) God help you if you agitate my cat while you're in there.
F) I have a cop for a neighbor.
G) I will shoot you.

That's it. Yes, I could get a better safe, better lock on my door, better door, bigger dog, bigger gun and move in with a cop. But A-G is what I have to offer right now. I do believe my house offers more resistance than the average. And if despite that, someone decides to hit my house... well?

[BamaJoe]

How do you keep your silver safe?

I'd like to buy more but security is really an issue.

I don't trust banks. It is possible to hide it really well, but what about a fire... can silver melt?

I prefer gold over silver, but it seems to me it is much more easier to hide 2-3 ounces of gold than 150 onces of silver!

My two zinc cents.

Can Silver melt? I gotta tell you folks a true story about a friend of mine.

A guy by the name of Lawrence. Now looking at Lawrence you would guess he was a deadbeat on welfare. Old ratty clothes, shaved about once a month, drove a 30 year old piece of crap pickup that looked like hell, and lived in a concrete block house that looked like a dump in a rough section of town. He was the cheapest guy I have ever known. Even when I invited him over I would have to pick him up because he was too cheap to spend the money on gas himself. You just had to know the guy - he grew on you in time.

He was worth about 3 million - about 20 rental units, lake property, and one hell of a stack of gold and silver. Everything paid for and he didn't owe anyone a dime.

At one of his lake propertys he had a ratty mobile home that was at least 40 years old. This was his "vacation getaway". By the way, that property alone was worth about $250k. Next to the mobile home he had a rough wooden shed. Now in this shed he kept 6 55gal drums of gas. Yes, he even bought gas when there was a price drop to have it during times that it went up (and this was when gas was just a little over $1 a gallon).

Now here's the good part. Under the mobile home he had 6 5gallon buckets each filed to the brim with 1oz silver rounds. Can you guess what happened? Yes, one day an electrical fire started, then the over 300 gallons of gas went up.

I helped go thru the charred remains two days later and we pulled out 6 mega chunks of silver. All those rounds were melted together. I tried to get him to send them to a refiner and take the money and buy more rounds, but he was too cheap to pay the refining cost and just kept the huge chunks.

Lawrence died a few years ago in his early 50's, I miss the guy. He was never married and never had any kids so his sorry ass relatives got it all. They were even too cheap to have a service for him - just cremated him and left it at that. His friends didn't even find out he died until after that fact.

[balz]

How safe do you think a safe is? Any recommandation for a not too expensive that is good for fire and that can resist burglars?

I've read that safes can be a bad idea because burglars can find a way to take them (even if bolted)... unless very very heavy... I'm looking at 100 pounds safe; what do you think about this?

Is a safe like this one can be good to protect my silver from fire and burglars? http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... -4642766-2

Thanks

BTW that melted silver story is impressive!

[theo]

A lot of good points made here.

1. Never keep anything valuable in your bedroom. However, you can "hide" coins/jewelry (in your sock drawer for example) that look more valuable than they are.

2. A good safe is great, but if its not well hidden it will advertise the presence of valuables.

3. Spread your stash out. It would take a thief a minimum of an hour to find even half of my meager stash. Think of creative hiding places, a large vase with flowers, an old tool box etc. If you use a lot of hiding places write them down somewhere secure.

4. Consider putting some coins in a private storage unit with a lot of your other junk.

5. Be observant. How hard is it case your home? Do you have a regular schedule? Be especially careful when buying at a coin shop. How hard are you to follow?

[njoElec]

How safe do you think a safe is? Any recommandation for a not too expensive that is good for fire and that can resist burglars?

I've read that safes can be a bad idea because burglars can find a way to take them (even if bolted)... unless very very heavy... I'm looking at 100 pounds safe; what do you think about this?

Thanks

BTW that melted silver story is impressive!

buy some nickels to weigh it down

It's good that you're concerned about safety, but at this point, I think you're over thinking. Here's the entirety of my security.

A) I don't talk about what I have (which isn't much).
B) I lock my doors.
C) I have 3 dogs, 2 of them are good sized, the third makes a crapload of noise.
D) I have a hidden, secure safe in my house that would take some time to find and break in to.
E) God help you if you agitate my cat while you're in there.
F) I have a cop for a neighbor.
G) I will shoot you.

That's it. Yes, I could get a better safe, better lock on my door, better door, bigger dog, bigger gun and move in with a cop. But A-G is what I have to offer right now. I do believe my house offers more resistance than the average. And if despite that, someone decides to hit my house... well?

C- I like this one, especially having a loud dog. This is one reason why I want to get a Beagle for security because they're LOUD!
F- I lived next door to a cop when I lived in West Virginia - always helps to have a neighbor in law enforcement!
G- I really like that way of security too.

[balz]

A lot of good points made here.

1. Never keep anything valuable in your bedroom. However, you can "hide" coins/jewelry (in your sock drawer for example) that look more valuable than they are.

2. A good safe is great, but if its not well hidden it will advertise the presence of valuables.

3. Spread your stash out. It would take a thief a minimum of an hour to find even half of my meager stash. Think of creative hiding places, a large vase with flowers, an old tool box etc. If you use a lot of hiding places write them down somewhere secure.

4. Consider putting some coins in a private storage unit with a lot of your other junk.

5. Be observant. How hard is it case your home? Do you have a regular schedule? Be especially careful when buying at a coin shop. How hard are you to follow?

If you spread your PMs everywhere, what will you do in case of a fire?

[Mossy]

Store it several places. As an example, keep some in your house's crawl space, some in a safe deposit box in a bank, some in a storage locker, some at someone else's house (perhaps in a suitcase with change of clothes, extra shoes, and copies of documents), etc. Don't keep it all in one place.

[balz]

I did some thinking and here is my new plan. Please tell me if you think it is sound.

First I bought a 30-minute fire resistant very small sentry safe. I will hide it somewhere in a very good spot. I will put about 50-75% of my stack there.

Second, I will buy another fire-resistant safe later and I will try to bolt it in my closet. The problem is that I have a wood floor with no access under it so I can't really bolt it tight. I will put between 50-75% of my stack there. (BTW if anyone has any idea how to bolt such safe to a wooden floor without any access under it, it would help a lot).

Finally, I will put some loose bullions at two different places in the apartment, such as in socks or elsewhere to lure burglars.

What do you think about this?

[justj2k78]

It's easy to put it into the wooden floor. It will come with 2 (or more, I suppose) large lag bolts. You'll predrill into the floor, pound in one of those plastic whichamacallits, then place your safe over the hole and ratchet down the bolts. No problem.

[Mossy]

What do you think about this?

In your shoes, I would put part of the stash in a safe deposit box.

Why? So you are less likely to lose the whole stash. Part in the bank and part in the residence. If the safe deposit box is seized, you have what is in your residence. If the building burns down or your apartment gets robbed by someone thorough, you have what's in the bank.

If you buy PM's, you can drop what you just bought off at the bank and anyone following you is less likely to hit your apartment. If you sell something, you can go by the bank, you need not take anything out of the box, before you meet the buyer, misdirecting any bandits.