Security

[aristobolus]

I thought of doing this awhile back, but have not gotten around to it. Consider putting a small amount of silver (maybe a few Morgans/other 90% Silver) in a prominent place in the bedroom- like a jewelry box on your dresser. Put a note inside saying that "This is my Silver Coin collection, if I should die please give it to my _________________ . I have saved these over the years, and hope they are a blessing to you. All my love, ________________________ ."

This may fake them into believing there is nothing else by way of coins in the house. I don't know about you, but in the unlikely event of a house theft; I would be quite pleased to give up a small stash in order to head off a worse calamity! Also they may feel guilty over taking these; it has happened before although most thieves are without a conscience.

[justj2k78]

Just get several of these and be done with it.

[blackrabbit]

If you live in a rural area go bury your long term main holdings offsite, someplace that you know will not be disturbed. Think Shawshank Redemption, some loot hidden under that rock in wall in a field. Go for something like that but different. I live in a tsunami zone so my main loot is off inland in a nice safe place, but it is safe even if a government confiscation team hit my place in a possible distopian future.

[fansubs_ca]

best way to keep your silver safe is not to show it to anyone, and to not talk about it.

Do you trust the guys at Kitco which have your address and know what you bought?

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in Canada we have to prove our identity and address to buy any PM and they keep that in a record...

This is a bit late for you since you already made the purchase but...

The purchases I've made from Kitco were all with a PO Box so their records would show that
rather than a physical address. Though in my case I used the PO Box because I already
had it for other reasons anyways and I find it more convienient to pick up packages at the
Post Office. (The PO Box also prevents mail order companies from "accidentally" using
UPS, not really an issue with Kitco but handy when I'm getting something from the U.S.,
avoids nasty "brokerage fee" suprises. ^_-)

After your next move of course Kitco will then have an obsolete address. Setting up a
PO Box before your next move will give you a way to keep your next address confidential.
Also since you'll be giving the Post Office your home address at the current address so even
they won't have the new one after you move. ^_^ So as long as you keep that PO Box
up you've got a private drop off point. To keep the full loop of privacy I recomend also
changing your credit card billing adresses to your PO Box so you don't have to give out
any other address when you use them.

The only time Kitco really needs proof of anything is if you want to change your address
on a pool account. That's such an involved pain though if you have a pool account I
recommend just cashing it out well before you leave the old address. You can always
set up a new account after the move if you want. Setting up a new one is far less
hassle than changing an address. The info they gather with CC when you order is just
for their security locking in the order so they don't end up writing a pile of free call
options unintentionally. ^_- If your CC billing address is your PO Box that's all Kitco
needs to take your order, the key is matching the CC billing address, not nesseccarily
where you live.

The likelyhood of a "leak" at Kitco is pretty slim but you can take the steps above if
you want to safegaurd against that on future orders.

As far as storing what you've already got I don't have any recomendations beyond what
the others have given except make sure you damn well remember where you put it and
if you hide it in something else develop a habit of thinking before you chuck stuff. I've
read 2 stories over the years about people throwing out the thing they hid their valuables
in by accident because they forgot that's where it was. I don't know how people do that
but somehow it happens. -_-

[balz]

best way to keep your silver safe is not to show it to anyone, and to not talk about it.

Do you trust the guys at Kitco which have your address and know what you bought?

I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in Canada we have to prove our identity and address to buy any PM and they keep that in a record...

This is a bit late for you since you already made the purchase but...

The purchases I've made from Kitco were all with a PO Box so their records would show that
rather than a physical address. Though in my case I used the PO Box because I already
had it for other reasons anyways and I find it more convienient to pick up packages at the
Post Office. (The PO Box also prevents mail order companies from "accidentally" using
UPS, not really an issue with Kitco but handy when I'm getting something from the U.S.,
avoids nasty "brokerage fee" suprises. ^_-)

After your next move of course Kitco will then have an obsolete address. Setting up a
PO Box before your next move will give you a way to keep your next address confidential.
Also since you'll be giving the Post Office your home address at the current address so even
they won't have the new one after you move. ^_^ So as long as you keep that PO Box
up you've got a private drop off point. To keep the full loop of privacy I recomend also
changing your credit card billing adresses to your PO Box so you don't have to give out
any other address when you use them.

The only time Kitco really needs proof of anything is if you want to change your address
on a pool account. That's such an involved pain though if you have a pool account I
recommend just cashing it out well before you leave the old address. You can always
set up a new account after the move if you want. Setting up a new one is far less
hassle than changing an address. The info they gather with CC when you order is just
for their security locking in the order so they don't end up writing a pile of free call
options unintentionally. ^_- If your CC billing address is your PO Box that's all Kitco
needs to take your order, the key is matching the CC billing address, not nesseccarily
where you live.

The likelyhood of a "leak" at Kitco is pretty slim but you can take the steps above if
you want to safegaurd against that on future orders.

As far as storing what you've already got I don't have any recomendations beyond what
the others have given except make sure you damn well remember where you put it and
if you hide it in something else develop a habit of thinking before you chuck stuff. I've
read 2 stories over the years about people throwing out the thing they hid their valuables
in by accident because they forgot that's where it was. I don't know how people do that
but somehow it happens. -_-

Thanks for the tips. I don't know how it works when they ship to you as I always bought in person. If they ship to you, you don't need to prove your address, am I right? When buying in person, you need an ID with the address on it, so this is not very practical for a PO box.

[balz]

It's easy to put it into the wooden floor. It will come with 2 (or more, I suppose) large lag bolts. You'll predrill into the floor, pound in one of those plastic whichamacallits, then place your safe over the hole and ratchet down the bolts. No problem.

Hmm... Do I need to drill in the beams or simply in the wood floor? I am not sure about those "whichamacallits"... What are they exactly?

Any chance that even bolted in wood, two strong men could move the safe if it is small enough?

My first plan failed... as the small fire-resistant safe is 1/2 inch too big to fit where I planned to put it. I need a plan B bolted! and something good; we all read the stories about sentry safe been opened by a crow bar.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I don't think apartments are a good place to hide PM's. Girlfriends come and go. Half of all wives come and go. Loose lips can get you killed in this "hobby". I don't trust banks either, but your situation could warrant a safety deposit box.

If I lived in an apartment and had several ozt of gold... I would put a few coins in a small clothe bag tied tightly shut. Then, I would tie a string onto the bag. Then I would un-screw an electrical wall socket near the floor and lower my gold coins down to lie on the floor inside the wall. Tie the string to the inside of the wall socket box so no one can see it. Then put the electrical socket and cover plate back into the wall so it looks like it did before I hid gold in it. And for crying out loud, do this in a wall where both sides of the wall are inside your apartment!

Repeat the process as many times as needed to hide all coins.

[balz]

I don't think apartments are a good place to hide PM's. Girlfriends come and go. Half of all wives come and go. Loose lips can get you killed in this "hobby". I don't trust banks either, but your situation could warrant a safety deposit box.

If I lived in an apartment and had several ozt of gold... I would put a few coins in a small clothe bag tied tightly shut. Then, I would tie a string onto the bag. Then I would un-screw an electrical wall socket near the floor and lower my gold coins down to lie on the floor inside the wall. Tie the string to the inside of the wall socket box so no one can see it. Then put the electrical socket and cover plate back into the wall so it looks like it did before I hid gold in it. And for crying out loud, do this in a wall where both sides of the wall are inside your apartment!

Repeat the process as many times as needed to hide all coins.

I thought about this. This is why I think I'll buy gold in the future rather than silver. I believe silver will outperform gold in the next years, but it takes may more space for the same value than gold. At some point, someone could have 10,000$ worth of gold on himself, but try to do this with silver... you'll feel heavy!

I'll try to keep my capital. I hope I can buy some land someday... would make things easier... But now seems like a very bad time to buy anything because the bubble is still bursting...

[slickeast]

It is simple. Just don't own any gold or silver.

[theo]

A lot of good points made here.

1. Never keep anything valuable in your bedroom. However, you can "hide" coins/jewelry (in your sock drawer for example) that look more valuable than they are.

2. A good safe is great, but if its not well hidden it will advertise the presence of valuables.

3. Spread your stash out. It would take a thief a minimum of an hour to find even half of my meager stash. Think of creative hiding places, a large vase with flowers, an old tool box etc. If you use a lot of hiding places write them down somewhere secure.

4. Consider putting some coins in a private storage unit with a lot of your other junk.

5. Be observant. How hard is it case your home? Do you have a regular schedule? Be especially careful when buying at a coin shop. How hard are you to follow?

If you spread your PMs everywhere, what will you do in case of a fire?

Good question. I tend to think that theft is somewhat more likely than fire. In my experience most fires are avoidable and many of the rest occur in older homes with substandard wiring. Since protecting valuables against fire tends to make them more vulnerable to theft, I've chosen to focus my efforts on making sure the fire doesn't occur in the first place. Another reason that theft is a higher risk is that silver/gold damaged in a fire will still retain a percentage of its value; stolen coins are almost always a 100% loss.

[NotABigDeal]

Good question. I tend to think that theft is somewhat more likely than fire. In my experience most fires are avoidable and many of the rest occur in older homes with substandard wiring. Since protecting valuables against fire tends to make them more vulnerable to theft, I've chosen to focus my efforts on making sure the fire doesn't occur in the first place. Another reason that theft is a higher risk is that silver/gold damaged in a fire will still retain a percentage of its value; stolen coins are almost always a 100% loss.

Absolutely correct.

Deal

[balz]

You made a good point theo.

I don't know anyone who actually had a fire, but is it possible to reach for the melted silver/gold in the house very fast, I mean before too many firemen goes there and take it? That may sound like a silly question, but if it's not worth the effort to protect against fire, this would be much easier. But for that statement to be true, one has to be sure he can reach for his PM (or what's left) after the fire...

[cesariojpn]

Keep them in a trash bag. Oh, wait....

[theo]

You made a good point theo.

I don't know anyone who actually had a fire, but is it possible to reach for the melted silver/gold in the house very fast, I mean before too many firemen goes there and take it? That may sound like a silly question, but if it's not worth the effort to protect against fire, this would be much easier. But for that statement to be true, one has to be sure he can reach for his PM (or what's left) after the fire...

Of the fires that do occur, I believe only a small percentage involve total destruction of the structure. So most of the PMs that you have hidden would likely stay hidden. Actually, I believe most fire damage comes from smoke, not heat. Having your coins fused together by intense heat isn't quite as common as one might think (IMHO), unless you like to store jet fuel and old dynamite in your basement.

As you said, there is a risk that some of your stash might "walk away" while your place is unsecured, but thats the point of having your valuables spread out isn't it?

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

I don't think apartments are a good place to hide PM's. Girlfriends come and go. Half of all wives come and go. Loose lips can get you killed in this "hobby". I don't trust banks either, but your situation could warrant a safety deposit box.

If I lived in an apartment and had several ozt of gold... I would put a few coins in a small clothe bag tied tightly shut. Then, I would tie a string onto the bag. Then I would un-screw an electrical wall socket near the floor and lower my gold coins down to lie on the floor inside the wall. Tie the string to the inside of the wall socket box so no one can see it. Then put the electrical socket and cover plate back into the wall so it looks like it did before I hid gold in it. And for crying out loud, do this in a wall where both sides of the wall are inside your apartment!

Repeat the process as many times as needed to hide all coins.

I thought about this. This is why I think I'll buy gold in the future rather than silver. I believe silver will outperform gold in the next years, but it takes may more space for the same value than gold. At some point, someone could have 10,000$ worth of gold on himself, but try to do this with silver... you'll feel heavy!

I'll try to keep my capital. I hope I can buy some land someday... would make things easier... But now seems like a very bad time to buy anything because the bubble is still bursting...

I used to read Prof. Antal Fekete a lot. His logic states that you are better off holding gold if your journey covers a long distance in a short time. Silver, on the other hand, is best for covering a short distance over a much longer period of time.

I hear what you are saying about land. I am still waiting for land to drop down further myself. (I want to buy a large acreage)

[balz]

@theo: You make another point. I guess that having numerous hiding spot in the apartment would make it more difficult for thieves in a complete fire destruction scenario. BTW I agree with you that such complete destruction is not something that happen very often, but the whole idea of stacking PM is actually like buying an insurance agasint complete economic failure, if I do all this to prepare against such scenario I must also know what is the worst that can happen. It would be cool if someone reading is would be a fireman or someone in the know: I'd really like to know how I would be able to recover my PM in a destructed building. It seems complicated to me...

@Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay: I like that logic a lot. The only problem I see so far is that we don't know exactly what will happen. In case of a minor collapse, we could probably stay where we are and use silver as a currency. But in a complete SHTF scenario gold may be better to travel. In a not too far distant future, we might see people converting silver for gold before a trip, just as people are cashing out money from the bank before vacations today...

[NotABigDeal]

Apartment dwellers, if you are not on the ground floor here's something to think about. If there is a large fire, your stash could end up in the guy's apartment below you. Damn gravity. This would cause quite an issue. Now you have to prove your stash is indeed YOUR stash and not the guy living below you....

Deal

[fansubs_ca]

Thanks for the tips. I don't know how it works when they ship to you as I always bought in person. If they ship to you, you don't need to prove your address, am I right? When buying in person, you need an ID with the address on it, so this is not very practical for a PO box.

I guess cash transactions over a certain amount kick in the "anti-money laundering" rules.
I do remember when they kicked in back in the early 1990s, killed the retail side of the
bussiness at the currency exchange places due to the hassle it caused with paperwork.
(Or making more work for them if people did what I did and just break up our purchase
of US$ into more than one trip if we wanted over $1000 worth. )

Of course if they are doing this to you on a purchase of a single 1 ounce silver round you
should consider looking for annother source to buy from, maybe check out a few coin
shops. ^_- Again I think the risk of a leak at Kitco is somewhat low. (Though not
impossible.)

I guess since I paid by check (which also had my PO Box on it as the address) that creates
enough of a paper trail government wise they don't need to go through the steps they
would with cash. If you are buying a large enough amount you could order by mail as the
shipping they charge isn't too brutal except on smaller orders.

Yes, with mail order your address is matched by CC Billing address instead of whatever address you have on your photo ID. What ID do they require at Kitco when you buy in
person?

[fansubs_ca]

Keep them in a trash bag. Oh, wait....

Yeah, that was one of the 2 stories I read, I think the other one I read was paint cans.

I can't even see someone with "Ronald Reagan memory" (his famous "I forgot" at the
Iran/Contra hearings) doing that. Apparently somebody proved it's possible though.

[neilgin1]

How do you keep your silver safe?

by putting my faith in God and His Son Jesus, that He will always guide me, protect me, shelter me under His Wing, and give me the wisdom to walk in a darkened world, as a son of the Light.

Forgive me if thats sound "religiostic", or trite...coz i dont mean it that way. what i mean is, no matter ANY measures, our silver is NEVER really safe, if we place our faith in the metal, before the Maker. May you blessed with the wisdom you need.

[Aqualung48]

Apartment dwellers, if you are not on the ground floor here's something to think about. If there is a large fire, your stash could end up in the guy's apartment below you. Damn gravity. This would cause quite an issue. Now you have to prove your stash is indeed YOUR stash and not the guy living below you....

NotABigDeal, this is an excellent comment and point to remember. There would be no way to prove ownership unless there was something unique about the silver (engraving, recording serial numbers etc.) that can be proven to the satisfaction of the police or the courts. Even if you could prove it was yours afterward and get a judgment or order for the return, getting the order and getting the return are two different things. Our courts are full of unsatisfied judgments. Look at the records of the bankruptcy courts to see how many will never be paid.

This reminds me of September 11, 2011. Supposedly there was one million ounces of Saudi gold in the WTC that got buried in the rubble. Never heard anything about whether it was recovered or returned to the Saudi's. Not that it would hurt them to loose it, the way the rape us over oil prices, but it did, in theory, belong to them. Anyone ever hear anything about this or the recovery of the gold?

[Mossy]

Supposedly there was one million ounces of Saudi gold in the WTC that got buried in the rubble. Never heard anything about whether it was recovered or returned to the Saudi's. Not that it would hurt them to loose it, the way the rape us over oil prices, but it did, in theory, belong to them. Anyone ever hear anything about this or the recovery of the gold?

Oh.

My.

Such

a

shame.

[needler420]

Funny story when I lived in south FL Davie I lived in townhouses that were 9 different buildings on the arrowhead golf course. ( Same golf course caddyshack was filmed)

Anyway I think either building 5 or 6 burned the whole roof. The firefighters water hose ruined all the floors they were 4story building.


It was a good college community but in a short brief time there was a murder there and 2 other fires.

I lived in building 3 or 4



http://www.firehouse.com/forums/archive ... 52789.html

The fire didn't get to the whole building but it was deemed unsafe to occupy so no one was allowed to even get personal items.

In a situation like that your best bet is probably actually trying to retrieve the stash. It may be a safety issue but depending on how much of your portfolio is there it could be your livelihood.


I live in a house now couldn't be happier. Just have to make sure to have homeowners if your a owner and no association is there to back you.

[Doctor Steuss]

One of the things that saved me from losing substantially more coins and PMs when my house was robbed earlier this year was not keeping it all in the same place.

I unfortunately can't tell you what hiding places weren't discovered (that would kind of defeat the purpose, as there’s no telling if a thief in your, or my area may stumble upon this thread). Just make sure you’re varied in where and how you hide it.

Edited to add: Another one of the things that saved me from losing more, is I believe one of the theives was an idiot.

[Aqualung48]

I live in a house now couldn't be happier. Just have to make sure to have homeowners if your a owner and no association is there to back you.

needler420,
Very few people actually read their homeowner's policy before a loss. After a loss, they may discover the limit for cash, coins and jewelry is a fraction of what they thought was their coverage. Most standard policies have a limit of $500 or $1000. The insurance company will sell a rider for extra coverage if you have an extra arm and leg.

My suggestion to all who rely on a homeowner's policy is to skip through all the legalese writings of the first twenty pages or so and go to the last few pages of the policy. Here you will find the limitations of specific kinds of losses. Usually there is no or very little foundation coverage, and the same small limit for firearms.

Those of you now reading your homeowner's policies will find them difficult to read and understand because of the legalese. My suggestion is to contact the insurer and ask them to state the same thing in plain English.