Zerohedge: The True Value of Money

[iluc]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/true-valu ... -literally

[fasTT]

Probably brought a huge amount of hits to Coinflation.

They just got sold didn't they?

Hmmm....

[tractorman]

I was bored and reading through some of the comments. I liked this exchange.

Gold is the money of kings

Silver the money of gentlemen

Barter the money of peasants

debt the money of slaves

Say, where do you fall, gentle reader? )

and in response ...

"Say, where do you fall, gentle reader? )"

Land the money of GODS. That's where it all falls eventually.

Amen, I say.

[Copper Catcher]

Clearly I think we can see what the best investment truly is on this chart....and it is not nickels!

[highroller4321]

Clearly I think we can see what the best investment truly is on this chart....and it is not nickels!

Got that right!

[Jonflyfish]

Clearly I think we can see what the best investment truly is on this chart....and it is not nickels!

That depends. $1mm in nickels is a risk free hedge that requires nothing but swapping FRN's for 10,000 Brinks boxes at face value.
$1mm in pre 82 pennies would take how much time/cost/effort/premium to amass?
Otherwise, one might say that .90 silver half dollars are clearly better than pennies or nickels.

Cheers!

[highroller4321]

Clearly I think we can see what the best investment truly is on this chart....and it is not nickels!

That depends. $1mm in nickels is a risk free hedge that requires nothing but swapping FRN's for 10,000 Brinks boxes at face value.
$1mm in pre 82 pennies would take how much time/cost/effort/premium to amass?
Otherwise, one might say that .90 silver half dollars are clearly better than pennies or nickels.

Cheers!

Even if you pay 1.7 cents for 50 copper pennies you have a value of 118.5 cents with 85 cents invested.
You invest 85 cents in nickels at face value you have a value of 91.8 cents.

[iluc]

Diversify! I love it all.

[ZenOps]

Canadian pre-81 pure nickels were worth 23 cents back in 2007, for a very short period of time.

Its no big secret that the Nickel mine in Sudbury (30% world production) is under strain, even with Canada's great safety record, two miners died this year. Alloy recovery is in full swing for nickel (but not copper, as we had copper cents until 1996) Taseko copper is pulling out record amounts of copper, global copper production has never been higher, and will probably never be in "shortage" within our lifetimes, it probably will never even slump.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/584931

At less than $5 per pound, the nickel plant must cut staff to survive. They are now very, very deep into the mine - which means excessive cost to pull nickel from the last deep veins. Yes, I dare say - there is not enough work and it is becoming increasingly unfeasable as the mine nears *end of life* it was inevitable since 1883 and the refinery in 1951. 60 years of heavy mining and refining have finally caught up to this godsent resource.

And when the inevitable shutdown of Sudbury hits and zero nickel comes out of Canada - what do you think the price will be? If Norilsk slows production, then instantly 70% of the worlds production will disappear. I don't think the US even has 0.1% nickel production as is now, and has no feasable mines anywhere (So its not a matter of cost, you simply have no nickel mines in the US at any price.)

Get your nickels now! 10x rarer than copper, and soon to have annual production shortages (much like 2007) much greater than silver.

[iluc]

ZenOps, according to the USGS, there are about 1,500 tonnes of nickel mined each year. None from the U.S., as you pointed out. Canada produces 10-15% of it. So if this one mine shuts down, how could that approach 30% of world production? Also, Australia (which produces at about the same level as Canada) has nearly as much in reserve as the rest of the world combined (though I don't know how good those veins are or how quickly they can be extracted). Please don't misunderstand, I'd love to see prices closer to what I think is true value for nickel and other metals. I'm just trying to get a better feel for this.

[ZenOps]

You are missing three zeroes. About 1,300,000 tonnes of nickel is mined each year. Canadas production is 30% of worlds supply, but maybe only 15% of the US supply (the US never had more than 25% nickel coinage because you never had control over any production, or so goes the theory.)

Copper is at about 15,000,000 tonnes and growing rapidly.



There is no "chart" for Nickel production, but it is not just levelling off - its falling.

Interesting tidbit: Ratio-wise, the "given" statistics are that Nickel is 920x rarer than Iron (steel).

[iluc]

Very interesting, thanks! (And what's three zeros among friends?)

[Jonflyfish]

Clearly I think we can see what the best investment truly is on this chart....and it is not nickels!

That depends. $1mm in nickels is a risk free hedge that requires nothing but swapping FRN's for 10,000 Brinks boxes at face value.
$1mm in pre 82 pennies would take how much time/cost/effort/premium to amass?
Otherwise, one might say that .90 silver half dollars are clearly better than pennies or nickels.

Cheers!

Even if you pay 1.7 cents for 50 copper pennies you have a value of 118.5 cents with 85 cents invested.
You invest 85 cents in nickels at face value you have a value of 91.8 cents.

The difference is paying more than face value for a commonly circulated coin vs having a nearly effortless risk free hedge with nickels. This is why Bass etc have "swapped" FRNs for nickels. Pay a premium for pennies and you lose the perfect hedge. Pay face for pennies to sort and you will invest time, effort, fuel, shrinkage etc. The cost to sort out $1 mm in cu pennies would take someone like Bass a lot of time and expense, even with a Ryedale farm. That same time could be used trading more derivatives to then swap the FRN proceeds for even more gold guns and nickels, something I'm quite fond of

Cheers!

[frugi]

Canadian pre-81 pure nickels were worth 23 cents back in 2007, for a very short period of time.

I scrapped thousands of pounds that summer as many on here may or may not remember, there are posts referring to it if you hunt hard enough.

Candian nickels are the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!A+A+A+AA+100%

US nickels are worth saving compared to all others (excluding cents), simply for the mono-metal value, BUT THEY ARE NOT worth the value quoted above, they are worth way less at the scrapyard..............don't believe me, call your local scrapyard, and ask what they pay for pure copper, pure nickel, and mono-metal. Believe me I do not hoard/save/whatever any US nickels, I spend them. Coinflation quotes the metal value in coins, not the scrappable value. ONLY CANADIAN NICKELS ARE THE REAL DEAL, all others are not. Take it from someone who scrapped thousands of pounds of Canadian nickels, before there was ever a hint of any melt ban on US nickels.

[cupronickel]

Maybe, but you can't buy Canadian nickels at face value, you can't even buy them at spot value.

[mtalbot_ca]

Maybe, but you can't buy Canadian nickels at face value, you can't even buy them at spot value.

That is true, even here in Canada, I do not see nickels for sale anywhere below 5x face, my last purchase was at 1,6x which was roughly at 90% of spot at that time (3 months ago). The % in boxes in now below 10% in my region.

Brace for impact....

Cheers,

[frugi]

i have just sold over 16,000 of these on here in the public buy it now section @ $10.00/lb, which is only 2x face.

[Lemon Thrower]

nickels, bitchez!