Protecting yourself against civil asset forfeiture

[Nickelless]

I think this sort of thing should scare the crap out of Americans given the insatiable appetites of government at all levels right now:

http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/looti ... erica.html

Have any of you had to deal with anything like this?

[Hawkeye]

I have not had to deal with anything like that, but it does scare the crap out of me.

[68Camaro]

That's chilling....

[Hawkeye]

I think I have the ability to defend my family, home and possessions in quite a few scenarios, but there isn't much I'm going to be able to do if the government decides to just take it. That just freaks me out. I am going to have to take the preparation to the next level. You can't take what you can't find...

[Nickelless]

I'm working on a letter to my congressman that I plan to deliver to him personally at a local Tea Party meeting on Tuesday. He's very much a Tea Party sympathizer, so I'm going to ask him if he'll sponsor a bill to put teeth into protecting citizens from this sort of madness. I'll post a copy of my letter here.

[justoneguy]

Denver police confiscate cars routinely.
when you're charged with any crime, they can and do impound your vehicle.
If you're lucky enough to get the to release it in one day,
it's about $350 to pay for towing and storage.
if they keep it through your court date and your found not guilty,the fees have gone to over $1000 or two.
if you can't pay you won't get your vehicle back.
if your found guilty, the only way to get it back is to go to their public auction and bid on your own car.
many times it's cheaper to do that than pay 1000's in fees.

[agmoose]

Nickelless - let us know what, if anything Rand has to say...........

[agmoose]

I will also add - this article only discusses incidents well over 10 years old........I'm sure someone could write an updated version, showing property theft at even greater levels. Especially when you take into account the abuse of "imminent domain."

[Nickelless]

Nickelless - let us know what, if anything Rand has to say...........

I wish Rand was my senator, but I live in Indiana now. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Nickelless]

Well, the Tea Party meeting got cancelled tonight, although I don't know why. I'm probably going to write a letter to Rand Paul anyway to get the ball rolling in the Senate.

[rickygee]

Tennessee is now doing road checks along with the TSA. If you check Survivalblog or SHTF Plan you've seen the links.

Thing is TN has been doing drug stops on the Interstates for at least 15 years and confiscating property. This is a real Volunteer State Industry. Yes indeedee, I was never waved over for a vehicle inspection, maybe because I was on a motorcycle loaded down with camping gear/luggage, but I-75 at the Stinking Springs exit (Google it, I don't remember the exit #) was a favorite spot for the TN state boys to set up shop. Twice I rode thru unmolested. Maybe because I looked so fierce , but probably because me and my old Suzuki looked like we didn't have a pit to hiss in.

[Nickelless]

Tennessee is now doing road checks along with the TSA. If you check Survivalblog or SHTF Plan you've seen the links.

Thing is TN has been doing drug stops on the Interstates for at least 15 years and confiscating property. This is a real Volunteer State Industry. Yes indeedee, I was never waved over for a vehicle inspection, maybe because I was on a motorcycle loaded down with camping gear/luggage, but I-75 at the Stinking Springs exit (Google it, I don't remember the exit #) was a favorite spot for the TN state boys to set up shop. Twice I rode thru unmolested. Maybe because I looked so fierce , but probably because me and my old Suzuki looked like we didn't have a pit to hiss in.

Ricky, can you and others list some links here so I can print articles out? I'm planning to personally deliver the letter I'm working on and copies of articles about confiscations to one of Rand Paul's KY offices in the next couple weeks.

[misteroman]

Chad,
Thanks for taking the time to try do do something about it. While all you will probably do is slow down the process, at least you took a stand

[rickygee]

Nickelless, all you have to do is Google 'Tennessee Cops/interstate drug stops' or variations thereof and you will find youtube videos, articles and links out the provervbial ying yang. This is really no secret. In fact if you dig around you can even find an article on a 'turf war' between Tennessee cops on who has the jurisdiction on arresting potential $$$ donors.

Also, seems memory has failed me a bit here. It is Stinking Creek not Springs exit.

But the drug stops were not a figment of my imagination.

[Nickelless]

Thanks, Ricky. I'm planning to hand-deliver a letter to one of Rand Paul's offices tomorrow. I'll post my letter here when I finish it.

[rickygee]

This happened a few years ago: I have a cousin that lives outside of Nashville in Brentwood TN. No,(SHUCKS!) he's not a country music performer, just lives near a bunch of them. He found a classic motorcycle for me and I rented a car and drove to the Guitartown to purchase it after he determined it was up to a road trip back to Kaintuckee. Now we're not talking obscure and big bucks like a Vincent Black Lightning, or a Crocker, just a big old 4 cylinder Kawasaki motorbike. So to stretch a short story even longer, I drove on down with a wallet full of cash, little under 3 grand. Peeps told me later if I was pulled over for speeding or whatever in the rental I'd have lost the cash even tho' it was for the purchase of a motor vechicle that was arranged two weeks previously. Hell, I even had the deposit receipt to prove it. Wouldn't have mattered the cops would have called it drug money and it would have been confiscated.

I have heard as 'little' as $500 is up for grabs in TN.

[NHsorter]

wow

[JerrySpringer]

And also stuff like this is another thing to be concerned about:

http://news.yahoo.com/swat-teams-shooti ... 28360.html

[Nickelless]

This happened a few years ago: I have a cousin that lives outside of Nashville in Brentwood TN. No,(SHUCKS!) he's not a country music performer, just lives near a bunch of them. He found a classic motorcycle for me and I rented a car and drove to the Guitartown to purchase it after he determined it was up to a road trip back to Kaintuckee. Now we're not talking obscure and big bucks like a Vincent Black Lightning, or a Crocker, just a big old 4 cylinder Kawasaki motorbike. So to stretch a short story even longer, I drove on down with a wallet full of cash, little under 3 grand. Peeps told me later if I was pulled over for speeding or whatever in the rental I'd have lost the cash even tho' it was for the purchase of a motor vechicle that was arranged two weeks previously. Hell, I even had the deposit receipt to prove it. Wouldn't have mattered the cops would have called it drug money and it would have been confiscated.

I have heard as 'little' as $500 is up for grabs in TN.

Would it have helped if you had an extra pocket sewn in the crotch area inside your pants? Where else could the money have been hidden on your person?

It doesn't look like I'll be able to deliver my letter to Rand's office today because of other schedule issues, but I'll keep you guys posted.

[Nickelless]

Good news: I got a call back earlier today from the office manager at Rand Paul's Owensboro office. He gave me the fax number there and said he'd make sure my letter got to Rand. I'll post my letter here later tonight if I get a chance.

[Nickelless]

Here's the letter I'm about to fax to Rand Paul's office:

Dear Sen. Paul:

I am no longer living in Kentucky but I'm sending this letter to you because I think you're one of the few people on Capitol Hill who really cares about the Fourth Amendment. I am sending a copy of this letter to Sen. Jim DeMint, whom I respect greatly, and to my current congressman, Larry Bucshon, who is also a friend of the Tea Party movement.

It goes without saying that government at all levels, especially the federal government, has an insatiable thirst for cash and other resources to cover trillions of dollars in red ink, with no intentions of reining in spending. The tragic thing is that civil asset confiscation laws on the books give governments the huge potential for plunder of law-abiding citizens' assets without evidence of any wrongdoing and with no recourse for those whose possessions the government wants. Under current civil asset confiscation laws, citizens have to prove that they are not guilty of allegations made against them or their property, an impossible task since, obviously, you can't prove something that doesn't exist.

There have been news stories recently about police in Tennessee stopping motorists on the interstate and confiscating large amounts of money from the motorists without charging them with any crimes, and not returning the money. And for every instance such as this that we hear about in which various authorities use their positions of power to illegally seize property from citizens to enrich themselves because they can, I think it's safe to say that there are many more instances we don't hear about, and thousands of Americans are being robbed and plundered by authority figures under the cover of dubious or nonexistent charges. One account I have read involved a woman whose house was seized because her son had been a marijuana dealer, despite the fact that he had not lived with her nor had contact with her.

The ridiculous associations that authorities can try to draw to justify the confiscation of one person's property for another person's actions are ripe for abuse, and given the hunger for resources among governments at all levels, it doesn't take much imagination to see that every American could be a potential victim of brazen government theft for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time or having the "wrong" sympathies. As you are probably aware since you are a friend of the Tea Party movement, people are ending up on terror watchlists for the alleged "crime" of organizing Tea Party rallies, and anyone who is alleged to be a terror suspect, no matter how dubious the so-called evidence, is at risk of having their property confiscated or worse, without due process and without recourse. As a Tea Party activist myself, I worry about what might happen to my own property if the government decides to brand me a "terrorist" just because I believe in adherence to the Constitution.

I am asking you to please sponsor a bill that creates bona fide protections for citizens against government abuse of civil asset forfeiture laws--criminal laws already provide some level of protection for those found not guilty, but civil laws don't--protections that demand a preponderance of evidence against the accused party before property can be seized, not merely the suspicion that a person's property might link them to an alleged crime, and which will allow those accused to keep the property in question until the government can prove that such property is directly linked to a crime. The burden of proving guilt should rest upon the government, not upon citizens who must prove that they are not guilty to be able to keep property that is rightly theirs. I realize you will probably have huge opposition to such a bill, since governments all over the country are reaping a windfall from asset forfeitures under current law, but I know that you have the courage to push a bill like this through the Senate and the determination to see it get passed. If you have to attach this bill to an unrelated measure to get it passed, please try to do so--the enemies of freedom in Washington have taken this approach in pushing through anti-freedom legislation, so if that's what it takes to help breathe life back into the Fourth Amendment, so be it.

Thank you again for your time and attention, Sen. Paul. I look forward to your reply.

[Hawkeye]

It seems as though we have come to this: the "authorities" have unlimited power to do and/or take anything they want as long as they use the term "drugs" or "terrorism." Those terms don't have to be true or accurate, just throwing them into the conversation at some point is enough. It's sad and ridiculous.

[Bluegill]

Nickelless, the majority of this is being done at the local, county and state levels. I not sure a U.S. Rep. or Senator will really be able to anything about it even if he/she wanted. Locally is where one really needs to address this problem. Be cautious though, that is also a good way to get oneself on a local "list", guaranteeing you the very treatment your trying to prevent. Still, kudos to you for making the effort.

This really illustrates how "states rights" in modern society is pointless. The local and state municipalities are more corrupt and Statist than the Feds. Where are the County Sheriffs hiding at..? These laws are blatantly unconstitutional...

The Township I live in created an "Asset Forfeiture" division a while back. The police admins were giddy with joy as they gloated about how much revenue they were going to start getting for their department.

[OX6603]

Nickelless, the majority of this is being done at the local, county and state levels. I not sure a U.S. Rep. or Senator will really be able to anything about it even if he/she wanted. Locally is where one really needs to address this problem. Be cautious though, that is also a good way to get oneself on a local "list", guaranteeing you the very treatment your trying to prevent. Still, kudos to you for making the effort.

This really illustrates how "states rights" in modern society is pointless. The local and state municipalities are more corrupt and Statist than the Feds. Where are the County Sheriffs hiding at..? These laws are blatantly unconstitutional...

The Township I live in created an "Asset Forfeiture" division a while back. The police admins were giddy with joy as they gloated about how much revenue they were going to start getting for their department.

Just because the state and local gov't is doing it doesn't make it a state issue. Violating the constitution is a federal matter.

[Bluegill]

Nickelless, the majority of this is being done at the local, county and state levels. I not sure a U.S. Rep. or Senator will really be able to anything about it even if he/she wanted. Locally is where one really needs to address this problem. Be cautious though, that is also a good way to get oneself on a local "list", guaranteeing you the very treatment your trying to prevent. Still, kudos to you for making the effort.

This really illustrates how "states rights" in modern society is pointless. The local and state municipalities are more corrupt and Statist than the Feds. Where are the County Sheriffs hiding at..? These laws are blatantly unconstitutional...

The Township I live in created an "Asset Forfeiture" division a while back. The police admins were giddy with joy as they gloated about how much revenue they were going to start getting for their department.

Just because the state and local gov't is doing it doesn't make it a state issue. Violating the constitution is a federal matter.

Your arguing a moot point. The Feds have no interest in getting involved in this. The Constitution has all but been declared null and void. It is there for ceremonial purposes only. I seriously doubt the Kangaroo SCOTUS would even rule this unconstitutional (if you could even get the issue in front of them for review).

So I maintain, "I not sure a U.S. Rep. or Senator will really be able to anything about it even if he/she wanted. Locally is where one really needs to address this problem."

A U.S. Rep. or Senator does not "outrank" his/her States Legislative and Executive offices. He/she represents said State in the U.S. Congress. Now collectively as a branch of the Federal Government that governing body does wield certain specific powers over the individual States.

Graft and corruption has no boundaries. It crosses jurisdictional lines. They are all in it together. Everybody is greasing everyone else palms for favors. Look at the Chicagostan/Cook County/Springfield/D.C. Cabal. We got one here with the Detroit/Wayne County/Lansing/D.C. Cabal.

Nobody is going to rock the boat at the Federal level.