invest in 401k more or silver/gold

[kidman232]

switching into a new job and looking to start up my 401k (young 20's). Im wondering what peoples thoughts are on what percentage i should allocate to my 401k and what percentage i should try to put into physical metals. Right now i have it set up with 7% to 401k with a 3% company match. But im wondering if i might see a better return putting the cash into metals and reducing the 401K amount per check.

[BamaJoe]

It depends on whether you have enough faith in the politicians to believe that the money will be there for your retirement or whether or think that the money will be long gone before then. I happen to think one of two things will happen. Either individual accounts will be considered "unfair" because some do not have them and be "fairly distributed" among the masses or that the government will force a swap for government debt like some other countries have already done.

I closed out my IRA's a few years ago, went ahead and paid the taxes and penalties, bought pm's and have since made up for the taxes/penalties and then some. I also do not participate in my company's 401 and use the money I would invest there to by pm's.

It is a personal choice for each that basically comes down to how much faith you have in the politicians vs. your faith in pm's.

[dannan14]

switching into a new job and looking to start up my 401k (young 20's). Im wondering what peoples thoughts are on what percentage i should allocate to my 401k and what percentage i should try to put into physical metals. Right now i have it set up with 7% to 401k with a 3% company match. But im wondering if i might see a better return putting the cash into metals and reducing the 401K amount per check.

How much do you need to get the full 3% match? Typically, that will be 6%. Because of the way that discrimination testing works, most companies who use a match will match 50% up to 6%. That means if you contribute 6% they will give you a match of 50% of that or 3%. If that is the case with your company it will only free up 1% of your pay, but it will still give you the most free money. Also, you should find out the vesting schedule for that match. If it isn't 100% immediate, then take into account how long it will take for the match to become your money when you make your decision.

[beauanderos]

switching into a new job and looking to start up my 401k (young 20's). Im wondering what peoples thoughts are on what percentage i should allocate to my 401k and what percentage i should try to put into physical metals. Right now i have it set up with 7% to 401k with a 3% company match. But im wondering if i might see a better return putting the cash into metals and reducing the 401K amount per check.

How much do you need to get the full 3% match? Typically, that will be 6%. Because of the way that discrimination testing works, most companies who use a match will match 50% up to 6%. That means if you contribute 6% they will give you a match of 50% of that or 3%. If that is the case with your company it will only free up 1% of your pay, but it will still give you the most free money. Also, you should find out the vesting schedule for that match. If it isn't 100% immediate, then take into account how long it will take for the match to become your money when you make your decision.

It typically takes five full years to become 100% vested to get all of "their" money with your own, should you choose to exit the plan or move to another funding employer and transfer the balance. Until then, it is commingled with your own contributions, but you only have access to it at, say, 25% after two years, 50% after three, etc. It may differ from company to company, but I'm fairly certain this is a standardized practice. Although I firmly believe all 401k's will be "nationalized" I still contribute my own 6% to gain their 3% on the off chance that I'm wrong. I'm hoping for a strong rebound in precious metals this year (which would be a no-brainer prediction if it weren't for the meddling influence of the bullion banks without fathers) so that I can regain a sizable paper markets trading profit. At which time I would cash out and convert to more physical. I figure I have two years to do so before Guaranteed Retirement Annuities (look it up) kicks in and our 401k's are "lost."

[Treetop]

Id go with silver myself...

[Diggin4copper]

30% on your money up front is not too bad, except that it is not your money till you retire... thats a long way away...I would try to do both..

[dannan14]

It typically takes five full years to become 100% vested to get all of "their" money with your own,

It is actually quite common for matching sources to be 100% immediate nowadays, especially if the plan is top-heavy. However, you are correct that for the plans that are not 100% immediate the 5 year graded schedule is typical.

[barrytrot]

Asking this question here is like asking the Cheer's bar patrons if the Celtics are better than the Lakers.

Most here believe that 401k's will be swallowed up. And they might be correct.

Here is where you need to question that though:

For some reason they think that attacking the mainstream that contribute to the 401k believing it to be *enough* is where the next move by TPTB is.

I would say, wouldn't it make much more sense for TPTB to attack the subversives that are hoarding gold and silver? Heck they already did it less than a hundred years ago.



My advice: Save as much as you can in every fashion. Matching by the company means free money (while it exists any way), so I would definitely not sacrifice that.

[Treetop]

For some reason they think that attacking the mainstream that contribute to the 401k believing it to be *enough* is where the next move by TPTB is.

I would say, wouldn't it make much more sense for TPTB to attack the subversives that are hoarding gold and silver? Heck they already did it less than a hundred years ago.

that is a solid point imo... In fact I think your right. I just think hard assets will still stand taller in the end. To each his own though. I would also ask others for opinions, but do what I can sleep best with at night.

[Engineer]

It depends on whether you have enough faith in the politicians to believe that the money will be there for your retirement or whether or think that the money will be long gone before then. I happen to think one of two things will happen. Either individual accounts will be considered "unfair" because some do not have them and be "fairly distributed" among the masses or that the government will force a swap for government debt like some other countries have already done.

Five years ago I'd never heard anyone else say things like that, and people thought I was a nutjob when I said them. In 2006-2007 many of my coworkers thought I was crazy for trying to pay off my house in 5 years instead of putting that money into a 401k. Some of them were even talking about taking out HELOCs to buy stocks.

Things have changed a lot since then, and I can't imagine how much they'll change in the 45 years before the OP can retire.

[barrytrot]

My true belief: TPTB have a pretty sweet gig right now! And why mess with it by rocking the apple cart? They don't need to seize anything, they can take 1% of the markets money every week (do the math if you think that's not a lot) by just jockeying the prices in their inner-circle group.

I don't see them altering their scheme for years as it works FLAWLESSLY.

[madman326]

guns hold their value!

[BamaJoe]

For some reason they think that attacking the mainstream that contribute to the 401k believing it to be *enough* is where the next move by TPTB is.

I would say, wouldn't it make much more sense for TPTB to attack the subversives that are hoarding gold and silver? Heck they already did it less than a hundred years ago.

that is a solid point imo... In fact I think your right. I just think hard assets will still stand taller in the end. To each his own though. I would also ask others for opinions, but do what I can sleep best with at night.

Bank robbers rob banks because that is where the money is. I believe the politicians will look around and ask themselves "Where is the money?" when the crunch comes and they are desperate to continue the bread and circuses just a little longer.

Yes, they came after gold before and they could do it again - at the time that was where the money was. Still, you must consider how much reward would there be for their efforts. Going after it person by person, ounce by ounce. All I can say is good luck figuring out where to dig if you are looking for the majority of my pm's. Even if they did only a tiny percentage of us citizens own more than an ounce or gold or a few ounces of silver, their total haul will be in the low billions for a VAST, EXPENSIVE effort. On the other hand, 401's, IRAs, etc. hold TRILLIONS of dollars that simply could be locked up with a few keystrokes on a computer. Yes, the owners will howl, but they will be greatly outnumbered by the "Poor" who want "Their FAIR Share".

[barrytrot]

So your reasoning is that the government wouldn't do it because there isn't much money in it? Ha! That's how the government loves to work - they make money by spinning their wheels hiring random people and then skimming off the top

[madman326]

what was the justification given by TPTB in rounding up everyones gold back in the day????

[BamaJoe]

So your reasoning is that the government wouldn't do it because there isn't much money in it? Ha! That's how the government loves to work - they make money by spinning their wheels hiring random people and then skimming off the top

Oh I never said they wouldn't do it. In fact I said they could it again. My point is that they wouldn't gain enough from it to make any real difference. The government could go thru those proceeds in a few weeks at best from the numbers I have seen in the past. This would amount to using a squirt gun on a inferno. Whereas if you look at the amounts in 401k's, IRA's, 401b's, pension funds, etc., it is in the trillions. A much better amount to continue the bread and circuses a while longer and to make it even more attractive it would be much easier - just have the right people sit down at the keyboards and the owners are locked out.

[Hades12]

I would put in enough to get the full match from the company. then pick a number and save that every check. Use it to buy what ever you think will hold its value and or go up.

One trick I have used a lot over the years is to put your raise each year away. so if your check goes up $25 per check with your raise then put that $25 into savings for the next year. Add the next one to it and keep going.

[DebtFreeMe]

Put in enough to get your complete match from the company, and then use whatever remains to put into other investments including silver, gold, or other investments...

[justj2k78]

I put 14%, plus an additional 5% employer match into my 403(b) (non-profit 401(k) equivalent). about 70% stocks, 30% bonds. I don't know exactly what percentage I put into PMs. but it is in the neighborhood of 10-12%.

[SilverDragon72]

For some reason they think that attacking the mainstream that contribute to the 401k believing it to be *enough* is where the next move by TPTB is.

I would say, wouldn't it make much more sense for TPTB to attack the subversives that are hoarding gold and silver? Heck they already did it less than a hundred years ago.

that is a solid point imo... In fact I think your right. I just think hard assets will still stand taller in the end. To each his own though. I would also ask others for opinions, but do what I can sleep best with at night.

What does "TPTB" mean?

[68Camaro]

SilverDragon72: "What does "TPTB" mean?" The Powers That Be. Often used acronym for the ultimate and possibly hidden-from-our-direct-view powers behind the machine(s) that control the market(s) (and everything else).

madman326: "what was the justification given by TPTB in rounding up everyones gold back in the day????" To corner the market in gold so that the government could then devalue the dollar by changing the dollar/gold ratio (the price, and therefore allow the creation of more dollars), while also preventing anyone else from profiting on that move.

[68Camaro]

Personal opinion to the OP: Even with a company match, immediate contributions to the 401K can now barely match actual inflation, and the larger total savings (over time) cannot begin to match the constancy in value of PMs. While I have been in it for more than 25 years and have profited from it (on paper) to date, with inflation kicking in fiercely that appreciation has started to go negative on an annualized basis. As of last year I personally pulled back to a minimum 1% contribution (which allows me to continue to participate in some things that I otherwise couldn't). Last month I paid off my previous 401K loan (interest is paid to myself) and just today I took out another max available loan, with which I will (in part) buy more physical PMs. Perhaps this tells you how I feel about it?

[mongo]

Think about it. Theres very little Uncle Sam hasnt figured out how to get ahold of and squander. They will come after the 401ks and screw it up just like they have Social Security and eveyrthing else the try to manage. Theyve already said that its broke and there wont be any money in it. Why? Truth be known theres probably a lot of reasons why but the fact remains ITS BROKE. So what could be the chances that they will figure out a way to "manage" the trillions in 401k funds. At this point in the game id say better than 50%. But that remains to be seen.

Sort On
Mongo


Because Honey Badger DONT CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rosco]

Put in enough to get your complete match from the company, and then use whatever remains to put into other investments including silver, gold, or other investments...

+1

then try to invest in PM the same %
Its a long time till you retire an what we Fear may not happen for a long time Yet

We will need all we can save it the future. Stacking your Choice Bullion or 90% is the correct thing to do

[PMLurker]

The government isn't going to seize anyone's tax deferred retirement accounts in the future. The taxes on the investments held in retirement accounts are taken out upon retirement. When people get to retirement age, most will not only be in a higher tax bracket, but at that time taxes will be higher. So the government will get their share of money.

If your employer is offering a company match, you should take advantage of that. Otherwise you are throwing away free money.

Investment is all about timing. You only make money when you sell for a profit whether its stocks, real estate, PMs, collectables etc.

If you have bought PMs 2+ years ago you would be up a bit of money. If you bought during the past year, unless it was on a correction, you could be down a bit or near break even.

Don't forget to invest in yourself. Learn skills that will increase your income in the future.