beauanderos wrote:Just tell that little North Korean warmonger Lil Kim that the Chinese are counterfeiting their currency.
68Camaro wrote:I did NOT (yet) see a serious attempt at a silver Kennedy half of any year, whether 64 90% or 65-69 40%. Anyone see one I missed?
thedrifter wrote:So do the better examples pass the "ring test"?
Chief wrote:68Camaro wrote:I did NOT (yet) see a serious attempt at a silver Kennedy half of any year, whether 64 90% or 65-69 40%. Anyone see one I missed?
Ray's got one...
Subject: Fake 90% Silver
That coin could have ended up in anyone's stack. Counterfeit '64 Ken's will be popping up more and more when silver keeps going up. It does worry me. I love the '64 Ken. Nice, full-weight 90% silver.
68Camaro wrote:Chief wrote:68Camaro wrote:I did NOT (yet) see a serious attempt at a silver Kennedy half of any year, whether 64 90% or 65-69 40%. Anyone see one I missed?
Ray's got one...
Subject: Fake 90% Silver
That coin could have ended up in anyone's stack. Counterfeit '64 Ken's will be popping up more and more when silver keeps going up. It does worry me. I love the '64 Ken. Nice, full-weight 90% silver.
I see that. So someone somewhere has done it (apparently). My question is if they are easily commercially available, as many of the other knock-offs seem to be?
TwoPenniesEarned wrote:thedrifter wrote:So do the better examples pass the "ring test"?
Yes. They need only be clad in silver to ring properly. Especially if minted from bronze, which they are.
Here's some interesting photos of a counterfeiting ring that I posted under a separate thread. Quite fascinating.
http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig ... ting-Ring/
Treetop wrote:If fakes become a significant part of the silver market enough that anyone in th emarket is concerned should we expect this to increase the premiums on proven silver or dampen them since there might be more time or expense to verify the silver? I could see that going both ways.
SilverEye wrote:The grading companies better get their act together. Once confidence in their packaging is sufficiently shattered, a slabbed coin will be worth less than a loose coin. No way to scratch test it, can't weight it, the case will obscure edge faults.
Where are their official cases and hologram seals made?
scyther wrote:SilverEye wrote:The grading companies better get their act together. Once confidence in their packaging is sufficiently shattered, a slabbed coin will be worth less than a loose coin. No way to scratch test it, can't weight it, the case will obscure edge faults.
Where are their official cases and hologram seals made?
Not sure what they can do about it, people are going to fake these no matter what. I really hate it, though. It essentially means a coin needs to be re-authenticated every time it changes hands. And most coins aren't valuable enough for that to be even remotely worth it...
RidgeWiz wrote:Counterfeiting of any U.S. Treasury "product" is a serious crime that is aggressively pursued.
RidgeWiz wrote:I don't claim to be an expert, but I've been buying 90% U.S. silver coins off and on for the past fifteen years. In that time I've heard a lot of people talk about fake 90% coins, but so far no one has been able to produce even one coin for my examination. I'm not saying fake coins don't exist, but when I press whoever is making the fake coin claim for evidence, they invariably say they heard it from so-and-so (a reliable source), or that they actually received the coin(s) but don't have them any more. To which I usually ask, "Did you sell the coins to someone else to get your money back, or did you just throw them away?" They usually say they lost them, threw them away, or gave them to a friend. Would you? If I had one, I keep the thing so I could show it to everyone!
In the last 15 years, I've bought several thousands of dollars of 90% U.S. silver coins; my dealer has probably bought and sold several times my several thousands of dollars of coins. Yet, neither of us has ever knowingly received or handled a single fake coin! Just lucky I guess.... I count every roll and examine every coin. Once in a while, a roll is short a coin; once in an even greater awhile, there's an extra coin. But never any fake coins (at least in my, and my dealer's, experience). If you're dealing with a reputable dealer (one who plans to stay in business over the long term with repeat customers), I would say the average person's chance of buying a fake coin is pretty close to zero. Not zero chance, but awfully close to zero -- say 0.0005% or less in real life experience.
So, let's talk about the mighty U.S. paper (fiat) dollar. On average in the past ten years the U.S. government and the Federal Reserve (which is neither federal or reserve), have inflated the currency (devalued the dollar) by 3.8 percent every year (on average). Which is the biggest risk for you? Holding paper dollars that are steadily losing value, or holding 90% silver coins that are steadily increasing in value?
Let's say you had $2,000 in January of 2003. You decided to hold $1,000 of it in cash, and you bought 90% silver coins with the other $1,000. In January of 2013 your $1,000 in cash would have been devalued by the Feral Reserve to $738 in actual purchasing power; your $1,000 in 90% silver would have gone from roughly 200 ounces at $5/oz in 2003, to 200 ounces at $30/oz in 2013. Now, assume that you were really unlucky and somehow half of the silver you bought was fake. With 20-20 hindsight, which deal would you take today? ($738 or $3,000?)
All investments have risks, and risk is the product of the probability that something will happen times the severity of the effects of that something if it does happen. None of us can predict the future with absolute accuracy; we can only estimate the probabilities of different things happening. What are the odds the politicians and Feral Reserve are going to continue devaluing the dollar? (100%?) What are the odds you're going to buy a bunch of fake coins if you invest in 90% silver? (0.0005% or less?) You decide....
Now, if someone who doesn't speak good English with a Chinese mailing address wants to sell you 1921 Morgan Silver Dollars at a really great price, don't be surprised if you get some fake coins and lose your shirt! On the other hand, if you buy 90% dimes, quarters, and halves from a reputable dealer you just might get the odd fake coin here and there, but you'll still have your shirt and most of your investment when you cash out later! Risk: Probability times severity.
Remember: If a deal sounds too good to be true, it almost certainly is -- behind every successful scam is the victim's personal greed....
Finally, for all those worrywarts concerned about fake ASEs, keep shooting off your mouth about having one and you'll soon have a visit from an armed Treasury official wanting to know where and how you came into possession of it. Counterfeiting of any U.S. Treasury "product" is a serious crime that is aggressively pursued -- they might not get the guy doing the actual counterfeiting in China, but they will get the first person in the U.S. who takes possession of the counterfeit coins! They also confiscate every coin they find with no compensation paid to the holder thereof (assuming he/she escapes being charged with distribution of counterfeit coinage).
There are a lot of unnecessary scare tactics and rumor mongering going on in this thread. Ignore the alarmist postings -- the 90% silver and ASE markets are safe as long as you're dealing with reputable dealers. Avoid sellers with foreign addresses, crooks in dark alleys, open car trunks in parking lots, and individuals making offers too good to be true, and you'll be fine! Do your own research on the Internet -- Search for "real counterfeit U.S. coins found" and check out the links returned. Then ask yourself if there is a problem as some persist in claiming....
For those wishing to refute anything I've said in this post, kindly provide concrete evidence of every fake coin you claim to exist.
RidgeWiz wrote:I don't claim to be an expert, but I've been buying 90% U.S. silver coins off and on for the past fifteen years...
RidgeWiz wrote:In that time I've heard a lot of people talk about fake 90% coins, but so far no one has been able to produce even one coin for my examination.
RidgeWiz wrote:There are a lot of unnecessary scare tactics and rumor mongering going on in this thread. Ignore the alarmist postings -- the 90% silver and ASE markets are safe as long as you're dealing with reputable dealers.
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