Diamonds

[frugalcanuck]

Anyone know much about diamonds. A buddy and I are both in the market for rings and we are checking out what was in stores today.
We got many different answers to the questions we were asking the different jewlers. Im thinking about going the way of the local goldsmiths. He is thinking about going custom as well (he has a buddy back home who is into making jewlery) and we are both trying to learn about diamonds. I was able to learn alot today but I know I was lied to on more than one occasion. And they were obvious lies.

So... I remember awhile back there was a member who deals with diamonds as well as PMs and I dont remember who that was. I did a quick search but to no avail. Does anyone remember or know.


Also.. Im new to the ring market. The pros and cons of white gold vs platinum. Im leaning towards platinum just because it is worth more but I heard it looks old after a few months. I also heard white gold needs to be resurfaced every few years unless its 19k white gold.

[Nickelmeister]

I get a lot of diamonds in my cash-for-gold business. If you want something in particular, just ask!

[TXBullion]

I think the NIckelmeister even has claim to Realcents first diamond auction

[oktyabyr]

Used to sell a lot of diamonds.

[whatsnext]

The biggest problem with stones is getting two evaluators to agree it's the same quailty. Getting a respectable well known certificate is something to look into to.

[oktyabyr]

Good thing to do is to check with your local coin guy. Lots of them do jewelry too. Another good reason to establish great relations with your local guy. They usually cut you a deal here and there.

Another thing you can usually do is submit it to GIA, but you have to dismount it for them to evaluate it. But they're usually pretty honest when evaluating it.

[BOHICA]

Good thing to do is to check with your local coin guy. Lots of them do jewelry too. Another good reason to establish great relations with your local guy. They usually cut you a deal here and there.

Another thing you can usually do is submit it to GIA, but you have to dismount it for them to evaluate it. But they're usually pretty honest when evaluating it.

Right here is some great advice.

Last year I was in my local coin shop buying some 90% when a lady came in to sell her wedding set. She had the paperwork showing she had paid $9600 for it. The next day I went in with my wife to buy some more coins, when she spotted the ring from the day before and asked to see it. They pulled it out of the case so she could look at it, when our daughter calls my wife on her cell. My wife went outside to take the call and I looked at the ring. It was 3.5 carats, 3 stones in an 18k white gold setting with a tag for $3600 on it. The owner looked at me and said I could have it for $1500. I immediately took the last $300 out of my wallet for a down payment and went back the next day to pay it off and pick it up. I had it resized and gave it to my wife for Christmas. She calls that ring "My Baby" (sounding just like Gollum).

Over the last few years I've bought several thousand dollars from this shop and they always give me a good deal.

[AdamsSamoa]

So what did the shop give her for it $1,000???

Don't sell them anything.

[Copper Catcher]

Diamond and jewelry are interesting subjects. You might not hear the term triple keystone much but that is the markup on lots of jewelry.
See: http://answers.google.com/answers/threa ... 09377.html

Also if you go to the mall and go in all those corner jewelry stores most of what they sell is "promotional jewelry" or jewelry they sell at certain price points that are attractive to buyers. No one ever calls the jewelry by that name but if you pull out the flyers from the newspapers from jewelry stores you will see the deals they offer. You might find 10kt, low quality, small diamonds and trying to achieve lots of flash for the money.

So what's it worth.... now here is the big lie. Everyone thinks if they get an appraisal it is some magical piece of paper. Many appraisals are not worth the paper they are print on because like the Red Books for coins it is an opinion and the piece of paper is not going to guarantee you can buy or sell at that stated price. Appraisals for the most part are used to hand to your insurance agent to establish a price for insurance purposes. That is it!

[Market Harmony]

Appraisals for the most part are used to hand to your insurance agent to establish a price for insurance purposes. That is it!

There is a unstated rule about appraisals in the retail world... whatever the appraisal says that it is worth, divide by 5 and that is the retail price if a store buys it as used from an individual. The store wants to make 100% on everything, so their offer will be half of that...

Appraisal = $20,000
Retail price = $4,000
Offer to individual seller = $2000

Effectively, whatever the appraisal says, divide by 10 and that is what you can expect an offer to be. Most people don't know this, so they bring in their heirlooms and try to hock them for the appraisal value. Then, they get offended when the buyer offers 1/10th of the appraisal value. I see this at auctions, too. The auctioneer shows an appraisal certificate and lets the bidding go... some rube gets suckered into bidding WAY above the 1/10th or even the 1/5th value and the rest of us just cringe and shake our heads.

[TXBullion]

Diamond and jewelry are interesting subjects. You might not hear the term triple keystone much but that is the markup on lots of jewelry.
See: http://answers.google.com/answers/threa ... 09377.html

Also if you go to the mall and go in all those corner jewelry stores most of what they sell is "promotional jewelry" or jewelry they sell at certain price points that are attractive to buyers. No one ever calls the jewelry by that name but if you pull out the flyers from the newspapers from jewelry stores you will see the deals they offer. You might find 10kt, low quality, small diamonds and trying to achieve lots of flash for the money.

So what's it worth.... now here is the big lie. Everyone thinks if they get an appraisal it is some magical piece of paper. Many appraisals are not worth the paper they are print on because like the Red Books for coins it is an opinion and the piece of paper is not going to guarantee you can buy or sell at that stated price. Appraisals for the most part are used to hand to your insurance agent to establish a price for insurance purposes. That is it!

And a couple words of advice on diamond appraisals. If you get an appraisal, and lets say it comes in at 10K so you go ahead and insure it for a value of 10K. You loose it and file a claim and you say Ill take the 10K to buy another one. Not the case (and I believe this is on all jewelry insurance policies). They say they know a couple credible jewelers who could replace the ring at a cost of 7,500$. If you accept cash versus them to make you a ring, they will only allot you $7,500 but you paid insurance on 10K the whole time. Ask your insurer but this is what I understand

[Copper Catcher]

Many Insurance companies will give you the replacment not the cash.

This is not a bad article:

A Guide to Choosing a Professional Jewelry Appraiser
http://www.palagems.com/choosing_an_appraiser.htm

[Nickelmeister]

Appraisals for the most part are used to hand to your insurance agent to establish a price for insurance purposes. That is it!

There is a unstated rule about appraisals in the retail world... whatever the appraisal says that it is worth, divide by 5 and that is the retail price if a store buys it as used from an individual. The store wants to make 100% on everything, so their offer will be half of that...

Appraisal = $20,000
Retail price = $4,000
Offer to individual seller = $2000

Effectively, whatever the appraisal says, divide by 10 and that is what you can expect an offer to be. Most people don't know this, so they bring in their heirlooms and try to hock them for the appraisal value. Then, they get offended when the buyer offers 1/10th of the appraisal value. I see this at auctions, too. The auctioneer shows an appraisal certificate and lets the bidding go... some rube gets suckered into bidding WAY above the 1/10th or even the 1/5th value and the rest of us just cringe and shake our heads.

In my experience, that spread decreases with higher value items. Sure, a $2,000 engagement ring will not fetch much on the used market, but a huge nice 2 ct+ stone will trade for WAYYY more than 10% of an appraisal.

[Market Harmony]

In my experience, that spread decreases with higher value items. Sure, a $2,000 engagement ring will not fetch much on the used market, but a huge nice 2 ct+ stone will trade for WAYYY more than 10% of an appraisal.

Yes, in regards to diamonds and a few other things of value, you are right.

The bigger diamonds do hold value better than the more common sizes. But, when it comes to other items to insure (like those that you might see on antique roadshow) then I think that is a fairly good formula to follow. I didn't come up with the formula, but I know better than to pay much more than that amount. If a big diamond comes along, the first thing I'm going to do is call a buyer and find out what they'll pay me for it before I even make an offer on it to the owner. Quick flip prices are different than something that might sit in inventory for an undetermined (long) time period.

[oktyabyr]

An appraisal doesn't guarantee the price. Sometimes they put one on, sometimes not. What it does do is to show the 4C's of the diamond. With that, it helps. Then you know what you have, and weather the buyer is trying to rip you off big time. Now the bigger the diamond gets, the more expensive it becomes quicker. But with the appraisal, you have a starting point.

[mr18]

Here's a question, I bought a wedding set for $7,000 last summer, how much is it to insure this set and is it a monthly or annual premium? i don't know any insurance companies at all. The jewelry store appraised it at $11,000.

[oktyabyr]

Would need to know more about it. What metal? What are the 4C's on the stone? Color, Cut, Clarity, Carat? Jewelry store appraisals are ok. But obviously it makes good business sense to appraise it for more that they just sold it to you.

[mr18]

The engagement ring is a three stone ring with 14k white gold. Center stone is 1 ct E VS1 with a good polish, fair symmetry and no fluorescence 5.49x5.32x3.81mm. The 2 side stones are .29 ct E VS2 and 8 smaller stones .31ct f/g color VS2 all princess cut. Wedding band also 14k white gold with 14 princess cut .58ct F/G VS2. Total carat weight 2.12. And oh yeah, the center stone is gia certified.

[oktyabyr]

Well sounds like a pretty good ring all around. The insurance price would depend on your insurer. And then you would have to find out from them how they pay out. Would they just pay you what they could find it for? Would they pay your what your insure it for(minus deductible)? That will make a big difference in who you go with and how much to insure it for. I would say to insure it for at least $1500 over what you paid, to take into account rising prices of gold and diamonds. With that quality, insuring for $11,000 (as long as the company will pay that) isn't too unreasonable, especially if your had to get a new one a few years down the road.

[BOHICA]

So what did the shop give her for it $1,000???

Don't sell them anything.

I'm in there pretty often and whenever someone want to sell jewelry with stones in it, they tell them that they only pay for the metal and that they will remove the stones for them to keep. Most times the people don't even want the stones and just take the money offered.

I've never seen them lowball anyone. That lady should have taken the stones, but didn't, her loss.

[oktyabyr]

So what did the shop give her for it $1,000???

Don't sell them anything.

I'm in there pretty often and whenever someone want to sell jewelry with stones in it, they tell them that they only pay for the metal and that they will remove the stones for them to keep. Most times the people don't even want the stones and just take the money offered.

I've never seen them lowball anyone. That lady should have taken the stones, but didn't, her loss.

Exactly the case. Very few places will pay you for the stones. If you do sell jewelry with stones in it, usually the best option is to take your gems. A lot of places won't take the gems out for your either, so you have to do it yourself. They don't want to be held responsible if something happens to the stones.