This time around I will diversify with numismatics.

[Thogey]

The silver stack is not worth the FRN's that it was. But that's OK. I really hated $30 $40 silver so much I had to sell a bunch to get it out of my sight.

I've been buying under $30 and look forward to a PROLONGED period of metal in the doldrums. It's going to make stacking fun again and not so stressful.

But I started out as a bullion stacker. I mean everything, spoons, coins, jewelry. During the $40+ period I divested of all foreign coins and silverware 925 art bars etc.

I spent some of the money to pay off debt and bought better quality bullion. I'm still sitting on some $700 ASE rolls. I have even have an $800 roll of phils But that's OK.

The stacking process will continue for 10-15 years then the selling will begin.

But I will educate myself more on numismatics and look for quality coins to hedge against the bullion market. I really enjoy coins and wish I hade put more money toward quality numismatic issues.

A lot of people will get hurt because of this silver run up. The wounds will take long time to heal.

Numismatic coins will help stabilize the value of one's stack.

Agree? Disagree?

[Morsecode]

Agree.

Since 1981 I have been all-in on bullion twice, and almost all-in on numi coins once. 1 up, 1 down, and one even

Presently 70/30 numi/bullion, and I intend to maintain that ratio.

[inflationhawk]

I always agree with diversification and in this market, having some numismatics probably won't hurt. I've been wanting to add some graded morgan silver dollars, but seems like I always end up just buying bullion. I need to do some homework and consider this path as well. Only real issue I can think of is transaction cost when selling. Bullion seems pretty easy to sell on here or elsewhere, but it seems like the only real liquid market for numismatics is eBay and their fees kill.

[rainsonme]

I have been buying SL quarters, pre-1930 Mercury dimes, pre-1935 WL halfs, and all things Barber for a while now. In small qty weekly. I pay melt or near melt, but hope that the low numismatic values would help put a floor under their silver price. I love Morgans, but the premium to melt is huge. It looks to me like the 50cent and below 90% have the least premium to melt, and I hope some low numismatic value to keep them from dropping below some silver price point.

When you speak of slabbed Morgans, the premium to silver price really rockets, and I think you are just buying numismatic coins at that price. I still want to stack silver, but with just a little numismatic hedge.

I worry that in a deteriorating long term economy, less and less people will have the resources or the inclination to bid up numismatic coins.

[Rodebaugh]

Dumb luck will often make you money on Bullion, right place at the right time. A solid skill set makes you money on Numi. With that said, I have made good money on Bullion and I have made silly loot with Numi.

Choose a coin series you like and look at tons of slabbed pics. Get to know what to expect of each date and mint. Then quality within a grade can be identified. Thats where the money is.

[Rodebaugh]

Something to look at. Purchased Friday in Baltimore. One of the most mark free (for a MS62), sexy, original 60-O seated dollars I have seen.

[Thogey]

Been concentrating on BU rolls since I started this thread.

This strategy has provided a bottom for my coins that is WAY above spot.

It's worth the premium to buy better stuff for a portion of your metal stack.

[Rodebaugh]

I still have that Seated dollar. Turned down a 12% profit offer Saturday. That money vested in Silver would have resulted in a 26% loss as of today.

Food for thought.

[93_Confirmed]

I'm interested in serious numi's but not enough to really spend a lot of time researching. The most I've ventured into this is picking up BU 90%, Engel/JM bars/rounds, and NORFEDs.

I need a Numi's for Dummies book.

[Recyclersteve]

[quote="Thogey]

Numismatic coins will help stabilize the value of one's stack.

Agree? Disagree?[/quote]

I don't know if I'd use the word stabilize- diversify might be a better word to use. And it depends on what you call numismatic coins. Something like a 1921 Morgan dollar that is slabbed is easy to get at most coin shows in quantity, and, unless it has monster toning or some highly desirable VAM error, isn't really something that would excite a lot of people, from what I can tell. On the other hand, something with lots of eye appeal that you just don't see every day (perhaps an AU-58 1916 Standing Liberty quarter with a full head) might help stabilize the value of a stack. BUT, if you needed money quickly, you would most likely have a hard time moving the quarter without taking a bath. So there are pros and cons no matter how you play it. It would likely be much easier to sell junk silver or American Silver Eagles in a pinch than to move a high powered coin like the 1916, especially if it was raw.

[John Reich]

My two cents on the numi's:

First, when you look at buying a coin ask yourself "what could I sell this for?" That will tell you how much the coin has to appreciate for you to profit, unless you cherry pick a coin. The more you can focus on and study a particular series the greater your odds will be of cherrying a nice coin.

Second, don't just buy coins--buy and sell coins. You'll gain a lot of knowledge and experience that way. Also, you'll discover which coins are in demand and which aren't. Liquidity is also more of an issue with numi's. Don't put money into them you'll need in the near future. Sometimes it can take months to dispose of them at a favorable price--especially if you sell via auction or consignment.

[Market Harmony]

I posted the following on BS in regards to a conversation about Spot Price & Numismatics, and thought it would also apply to this discussion.:

"People try to draw correlations all the time. One would think that similar markets will affect each other in one particular way all the time, but what actually happens is different each time. I can give a wide angle view of what happened in 2005-2011, but that doesn't mean that the next numismatic bull market will be the same, or occur simultaneously, or with the same magnitude of a bull market in metals.

Metals investors were awash in cash during this period of metals price escalation (2005-2011). In the coin show venues, precious metals and numismatic coins are typically sold by the same vendor. And, it seems that no person is solely an "investor" or solely a "collector." The two overlap. So, when profits were made in metals, those who had a surplus turned that into numismatics. The extra cash acted as demand in the market and pushed numismatic prices higher. People began chasing pricing with their cash and things scaled higher as more profits from metals continued to fuel the entire coin/metal/numismatic marketplace. At that time, "numismatics" were primarily defined as old coins. And the inventory was previously constrained due to lagging price movement. But as the prices escalated, more material came into the market. The market experienced increased demand for scarce items, and prices reflected that.

Today, numismatics has a wide reaching definition and product line. Should the market again see a substantial price appreciation in metals, then the resulting influx of extra cash may find different paths of purchasing... what once was a hot item may be considered cold and what was once not even a market may become one. The only thing that should be considered a sure bet is that if spot price substantially increases, then the cash will again flow. At that time, you will see where it goes.

Find value... something that today seems cheap in comparison to its availability. If there is no interest, or there is a niche interest, then you might want to look elsewhere. But, if there is a growing interest, and an under-served market, then you have a winner!"

[Rodebaugh]

I still have that seated dollar.

I should redo the photo as my gear and skills have improved.

[68Camaro]

Nice coin! I especially like the historical content being minted just before the war.

[justoneguy]

My two cents on the numi's:

Second, don't just buy coins--buy and sell coins. You'll gain a lot of knowledge and experience that way. Also, you'll discover which coins are in demand and which aren't. Liquidity is also more of an issue with numi's. Don't put money into them you'll need in the near future. Sometimes it can take months to dispose of them at a favorable price--especially if you sell via auction or consignment.

I only usually sell coins to see what the real "cash" market will bring

I bought a Lincoln cent album only missing the vdb.
I was positive that it would bring $700 easy,
but listed it for $500 for a fast flip before Christmas.
I got 1 offer $200
I put it away for a couple of months, then listed for $700 and sold full price within a week.
Numi can take time to sell

[Rodebaugh]

Same coin 3 years later.

Nothing has changed except for the quality of my photography and of course the value of the subject being photographed......both have improved.

[68Camaro]

Great pic of a great coin! Thanks!

[johnbrickner]

. . .
But I started out as a bullion stacker. I mean everything, spoons, coins, jewelry. During the $40+ period I divested of all foreign coins and silverware 925 art bars etc.
. . .
Agree? Disagree?

Yea, I'm a silver whore also. A cheap one at that. I'm a little more discerning though, I don't have any silverware. I'm looking forward to the run up as an excuse to divest also (but I love art bars and foreign). But, I do have some slabbed. As my eye gets better at discerning quality increments and I learn more from those who allow me to lean on their knowledge around here, I may branch out and buy raw.

Which reminds me, I have a '16 copy of Red Book to return to the library. There are some really cool old (really, really old) American coins I didn't even know existed in there. Talk about wanting to have a collection!

[Bigjohn]

Same coin 3 years later.

Nothing has changed except for the quality of my photography and of course the value of the subject being photographed......both have improved.

Great pic Doc! I have one of those recovered from the SS Republic shipwreck. Not nearly as much luster but still one of my favorite coins