Does anybody do this as a business or a job?

[misteroman]

skins,
I'll buy all you can sell me 1.3-1.4X face and pick it up at your house! If you were closer I'd pay more, but I think it would be about 400 miles round trip with a 1 ton diesel truck so that would be $75-100 in gas alone. Might be something for ya to think about though

[TXBullion]

I like this thread a lot. I was initially thinking along these lines before I started sorting. I wanted to start off big with multiple Ryedales, contact coinstar, process their coin and allow them a small fee (not actually sure of the feasibility but thats not the point im making). I think if your going to do it on the scale you are wanting, there is different equipment aside from Ryedale. I dont know for sure because I havent looked into it. I would do a two week trial. Your 4k investment will have a good resale if you do ryedales and used counters. That like barry said will be a TRUE test. I would go about things differently in an industrial operation rather than trying to peddle a box of pennies at one time, I just dont know if there is success for that at this particular point in time . I wish you good luck in your endeavor

[highroller4321]

Selling at 1.5x Minus shipping you are already down to 1.39 minus other expenses we will say you are lucky to clear $35 per $100.

$70,000 divided by $35 = 2000 2000 $100 lots =$200,000 Assuming you get 25% you are looking at sorting a minimum of $800,000 face value or 80,000,000 coins.




I think you should start by sorting $1000 face value copper and than try sell that. Dip your toe in the market before you jump in

[68Camaro]

Did the same essential math on this after my first hand sort (as others have done, and has been reported numerous times) and quickly appreciated that unless you are doing this for yourself in your "spare" time, or as a "soothing" hobby (for both those cases you can try to ignore the value of your time spent) that you would need to heavily automate and scale up to a very large thru-put quantity (as only a very few have done) if you really want to pay yourself an adequate salary for your time, while also paying for your equipment. Otherwise it's really more of an obsession than a job.

[barrytrot]

Actually I thought about it and the problem isn't the ability to sell the copper.

The primary problem is being able to "process" the coins.

The reason that the problem isn't being able to sell is because there is value in the copper that persists even if you don't sell immediately. You CAN sell them eventually. For sure. That may mean quitting the coin game and entering "Real world" again. But you don't "lose".

[JJM]

There's a thread somewhere, perhaps on the old site, that talked about a coin machine that tracked coppers vs. zincs. There's a thread somewhere, on this new site I think, in which a member who was also a coin machine tech talked about such a creature he had "tweaked" for someone. If the OP wants to do his homework, this information (and more) is out there. I don't mean to be rude, but if you expect your (potential) competition (eg: Portland Mint) to give you all the tricks of their trade, you might not be cut out for entreprenurial endeavors such as this. The world doesn't work this way. I'm surprised he's as forthcoming with information as he is...lol...and I can't blame you for asking - I guess - but it seems to me that personal research comes before questioning the competition. Call up all the banks within 100 miles, surely someone has a machine that tracks old vs. new pennies.

I second the above the advice on buying the machines and doing some sorting, to first-hand see what it's like. it's GREAT being one's own boss, but sorting / selling pennies is a LOT of work. I too hope you decide to go for it, and do well. But you won't really know what you're up against until you're buying pennies, sorting them, packing them and returning them.

On the flip side - someone could definitely make a living doing this, if the conditions were right. They'd need a place that was paid for, with low utilities & low property taxes. They'd need to be out of debt - or at least mostly so. So in other words, if you had a place that was mostly to all off-grid, and grew your own food (or were wholly to mostly self sufficient) you wouldn't need a ton of money to live on. In that type of scenario, one in which many of the preppers on here aspire to (or have already attained), such an endeavor could easily net $5K a year in profit - and $5K goes a long way if you're living simply with little-to-no overhead. I don't think this is what the OP is looking for, but for many of us it's a nice sideline that could - given the above circumstances - get us well into the GREAT RECESSION in style...

[barrytrot]

There's a thread somewhere, perhaps on the old site, that talked about a coin machine that tracked coppers vs. zincs. There's a thread somewhere, on this new site I think, in which a member who was also a coin machine tech talked about such a creature he had "tweaked" for someone. If the OP wants to do his homework, this information (and more) is out there. I don't mean to be rude, but if you expect your (potential) competition (eg: Portland Mint) to give you all the tricks of their trade, you might not be cut out for entreprenurial endeavors such as this. The world doesn't work this way. I'm surprised he's as forthcoming with information as he is...lol...and I can't blame you for asking - I guess - but it seems to me that personal research comes before questioning the competition. Call up all the banks within 100 miles, surely someone has a machine that tracks old vs. new pennies.

Even with 100% of the knowledge that Highroller has the next guy trying to be the next "highroller" (I guess highroller4322) would have to really REALLY work hard. And would have to have access to the level of coinage that the process takes. Which is difficult even with hard work.

Also, when starting a business most "what do I do to start my own business books" do recommend you ask your competition.

Knowledge is useful.

Execution is vital. And a lot harder than "knowledge".

Success is probably 90% execution and 10% knowledge. Unless the "knowledge" is of the "Scum Dog Millionaire" variety

[fasTT]

Access to coinage is the hard part. Machinery can be found, labor can be found, capital can be found.

What you need is a large amount of "fresh" coin coming your way. That is the trick. Industrial guys have it because that is the business. The sorting for more valuable coins is a profit center aside from the real business, which is processing coins.

[Shags29]

If it all pans out and everything works perfectly how many years can someone do this b4 copper is all gone? Also what about health insurance and a retirement savings.

[west77]

Access to coinage is the hard part. Machinery can be found, labor can be found, capital can be found.

What you need is a large amount of "fresh" coin coming your way. That is the trick. Industrial guys have it because that is the business. The sorting for more valuable coins is a profit center aside from the real business, which is processing coins.

This is sort of what I am thinking. I actually bought thatsawrap.co yesterday for the wrapping and processing business that I am starting (no point at looking at the site, there is nothing there yet.) You are lucky to live in an area that you can just return bagged coin to the banks, I need to wrap everything first.

The plan is to pull the copper and nickel out of the coin that I already charge the customer to wrap. I might purchase some nickel from other processors for now as this will allow me to get a "feel" for the whole thing, and if it is actually going to be worth it for me to sort large quantities, or if I will just wrap it all and return it to the bank. (though returning copper and nickel to the bank unsorted sound like an indictable offence to me right now. )

Where there is no real "market" for the product as of yet, I will either create a local market for the commodities or I will hold on to the copper and nickel and just bank it as profit instead of keeping $$ in a bank account for the business. In the future when it is time to sell it I will have to figure out how to treat that for the business. Can I sell it at a profit and just return the actual value in paper back to the business, or is the whole amount going to have to be reported?

The other thing to keep an eye on will be your taxes. The IRS (and our tax people as well) will likely pay close attention to any business who is buying and selling a million dollars a year to the banks or armoured companies. You had better keep your receipts of deposits, withdraws, profit and capital gains / losses in order. A cash business is one which they will not like any "shortages" of coin that goes missing... and they may ask why you are buying and selling that amount of coin. If you tell them that you are profiting from it, I would bet they will want their cut...

Good luck...

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

Darn.. that is where I went wrong.. giving too much information to the competition. No wonder the market price of copper cents is so low.

I truly am obsessed. I figure this was just a good excuse to have a lot of cool machines. I did buy another really nice penny cart for the Penny Processing Center yesterday. It was a heavy duty Craftsman Rollaround bottom unit with push bar and really big casters. Perfect for moving a bunch of boxes of pennies around the shop and the to drawers of the tool box will hold a lot of processed rolls.. Portacounts in the bottom drawer and normal penny racks in the other drawers. It was marked down from $489 to $122.50.. then there was an additonal $20 off for the President's day sale at OSH.

I could ramp up to that level with my existing equipment.. if I didn't have to spend so much time at the day job. But I like the day job.. decent pay, benefits, retirement etc. If I were to ramp up to that level I would probably pop for an industiral level sorter or 2 and maybe a RollCracker 1000. I save a lot by not needing to step up to that level.

[Derek.Sheriff]

This is a really, really great thread. I feel like I just got a crash course! I'm nowhere near wanting to turn this into an income producing business (I've thought about it and this thread put that idea to rest), but it's way more than a hobby for me. If the time comes when I can eventually sell my coppers for just 2 or 3 cents each, through a non-eBay outlet like Craigslist, I'll be a really happy dude.

I have what Austrian economists call a low time-preference when it comes to pennies. If I can hang on to the copper ones and someday sell my them for 4 or 5 cents or more each...well, I just hope I've been diligent about my other preps, because that might be a pretty tough world to survive, let alone thrive in. Thanks to all the guys who took the time to share their knowledge and experience!

[Snake42]

There are a lot of negative Nancy's in this thread. People will come up with every reason why you shouldn't do something. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders. I feel like this is feasible, but hey what do I know?

[JadeDragon]

There are a lot of negative Nancy's in this thread. People will come up with every reason why you shouldn't do something. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders. I feel like this is feasible, but hey what do I know?

It is feasible but you need to have the scale and the money and the where with all to pull it off.

[HoardCopperByTheTon]

It's only $16,000 in pennies to sort a week. Sure, it could be done. But even with the best equipment, that is a lot of work for 1 guy. I know first-hand some of the problems that occur when you attempt to ramp up production.

[slickeast]

It's only $16,000 in pennies to sort a week. Sure, it could be done. But even with the best equipment, that is a lot of work for 1 guy. I know first-hand some of the problems that occur when you attempt to ramp up production.

Ditto

But we are also working full time jobs.

I don't know anyone that is doing the level he is suggesting without it bring a by product of what they are currently doing (and no I don't care to elaborate)

[frugalcanuck]

Great thread

[Corsair]

Once the availability of copper in circulation finally dries up (ten, twenty years), and its feasibility is no longer rational, I'd love to finally know, see, and understand the set ups of some of you bigger sorters.

You guys are almost like the Fort Knox of our little hobby. We know you exist, and we think you might even be processing the amount of coins you say you do, and not just bluffing. So, come the day when every sorter's percentage drops to 0.1%, I want pictures and videos and descriptions and cold, hard facts.

[JadeDragon]

It's pretty simple. You need to get into the business of processing coins. Solve your supply and disposal problems, buy and maintain the equipment, find a way to sell a lot of copper coins, capitalize it all. Above ground mining is just like any business, it takes where with all.

[tinhorn]

It's pretty simple. Solve your 1 supply and 2 disposal problems, 3 buy and 4 maintain the equipment, find a way to 5 sell a lot of copper coins, 6 capitalize it all.

So THAT'S all?

[misteroman]

Lol yup that's it! See how easy that was

[JadeDragon]

Lol yup that's it! See how easy that was

Oh and don't forget security, both internal and external. Don't want thieves running off with untraceable coins.

[Pennysaved]

Would it be worth it in the beginning to just do it as a side part time business? Start with one rydeale and get the process going. Start small and dream big.

As it becomes more profitable, you could buy more machines/equipment. Would give you time to work out the kinks.

Most small businesses fail within the 1st 5 years right? Some small business owners leave their full time jobs in the hopes of hitting it big and end up falling on their face because they can't earn enough to cover their day to day personal bills. Not saying that it is not worth taking risks in life but personally I don't think anyone should leave their full time job for a small business they start until they are earning the same amount of money as their current salary.

[Lemon Thrower]

this thread reminds me of the time Newman and Kramer tried to return bottles across state lines. so close but yet so far.

[tinhorn]

Would it be worth it in the beginning to just do it as a side part time business? Start with one rydeale and get the process going. Start small and dream big.

Wise advice. This is how I've approached my business startups. Sometimes they can take a few years to hit pay dirt, sometimes it's more like overnight, sometimes the magic just doesn't happen.