Lag Bolts

[amalekidad]

My wife got me a BIG gun safe as an early Father’s day gift. My son helped me put it in ‘the bunker’ (back bedroom closet with a three wall built in spot for a gun safe). The safe it’s self weighs 450 lbs. My son says he will not help me put in the lag bolts. He thinks that when I “fill ‘er up that it won’t begin to move.” Should I worry about the lag bolts? If so, how should I go about putting them in?
Thanks!

[97guns]

what kind of floor? i have a safe lagged down in my garage, just drilled holes with a concrete bit and hammered in the anchore bolt, easy.....

[amalekidad]

Carpet, pad, concrete slab.

[NotABigDeal]

Yes. Secure it every way possible.

Deal

[bman]

if you put it in somebody else can take it out. Secure it every way you can.

[beauanderos]

Your son might think it will be too much work to retrieve the safe when you don't need it anymore.

[slickeast]

Bolt that sucker down. There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to security.

[Mossy]

(back bedroom closet with a three wall built in spot for a gun safe).

Lag bolts can be ripped out if someone can knock over the safe.

Could someone get around to the back yard with, say, a tow truck, smash the wall, and lift the safe with the hoist? (Ifso, then "landscape".) Do you live in an area with farm equipment? (Front end loaders and back hoes can also yard that out, and landscaping is less useful.)

Humor note: The highschool I went to did not have bomb threats inspite of most of the farmers in the area having dynamite for their orchards. They did have kids using front end loaders to put out houses and teachers' cars on the roof, and an occasional bull dozer aimed with the throttle set and abandoned.

Think like a farmer, if you want to make something secure.

[fa hayek fan]

The following You Tube video was eye opening for me. It shows that burglers want to get to the left of the non-hinge side of the door and want to get the safe on its back as soon as possible. If you can slow down these two thing the burglers may not even try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWfTtmTL8I


I suggest "Red Head" brand concrete wedge anchor bolts (5/8 inch by 6 inches long) that any Lowes or Home Depot sells. The pullout strength of each anchor is 4000 to 6000 pounds, so if you use several of these and reinforce the bottow of the safe with a 1/2 inch or thicker steel plate (think of it as a giant washer) with the anchors holding down the steel plate and the safe bottom you should have no problems.

[97guns]

yeah but when will you ever see "professionals" burglurizing homes with 5 foot pry bars? your run of the mill thief is the neighborhood thug and the best detourance is to be low profile.

[Hades12]

Local pawn shop got hit and they got into two of the safes, only one of them they could not get in. Paper said 1mil in loss.

[Dr. Cadmium]

To quote a local locksmith on safes: "Everything under 500 lbs needs to be bolted down."

Most home safes are only TL-15, TL-30 or TL-40. The number in these ratings is the time in minutes the safe is rated to withstand attack from basic power tools including high-speed drill bits and saws.

Note that any of those ratings becomes worthless if the entire safe can be stolen in a few minutes. Bolting a safe down will greatly increase the time and work required to steal it and will also make it more resistant to some tool-based attacks.

Safes need to be combined with other security measures and systems to be most effective.

A safe with a much lower TL rating that's bolted down and hidden in a building with secured entrances and an electronic alarm system is a far better place to store valuables than a maximum security safe that's not bolted down in a building with unlocked doors and no alarm system.

[BOHICA]

By all means bolt it down. Use the biggest bolts you can and as many as there are holes in the bottom of the safe.

[sparechange]

Lag bolts are cheap, gold and silver are not.

[slickeast]

Lag bolts are cheap, gold and silver are not.

EXACTLY!!!!

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

The following You Tube video was eye opening for me. It shows that burglers want to get to the left of the non-hinge side of the door and want to get the safe on its back as soon as possible. If you can slow down these two thing the burglers may not even try.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWfTtmTL8I


I suggest "Red Head" brand concrete wedge anchor bolts (5/8 inch by 6 inches long) that any Lowes or Home Depot sells. The pullout strength of each anchor is 4000 to 6000 pounds, so if you use several of these and reinforce the bottow of the safe with a 1/2 inch or thicker steel plate (think of it as a giant washer) with the anchors holding down the steel plate and the safe bottom you should have no problems.

Ding, ding, ding!!! Winner!

Another thing, after you bolt it down, max that sucker out with weight! Even if it's just pennies. Other posts are right as well. Make is as difficult as possible so you slow down the bad guys.

One last thing. Get a concealed carry permit and pack some heat. IF they get the drop on you, it's over. If they put a gun to a family member's head... if you don't open the safe, they will kill her. After you open the safe, they will kill you both.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

yeah but when will you ever see "professionals" burglurizing homes with 5 foot pry bars? your run of the mill thief is the neighborhood thug and the best detourance is to be low profile.

Any thief who just watched that video!

[fasteddy]

USe the bolts that go all the way through the concrete slab...Minimum 1/2" better to use the 3/4" bolts...if you move later then you can just hammer the bolts below the slab and fill the holes with concrete....you will need a hammer drill...don't forget to leave a loaded heater ready for action in the safe.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

Just a clarification comment. As a construction man, the term "lag bolt" is a very heavy duty, large flanged, wood screw designed to go into dimensional lumber and timbers. They use the term "bolt" because it has a hex head on it. It that what you are talking about?

If so, they were not designed to go into a hole drilled into a concrete slab. They will not hold anything that way, if that is your application. Use the Red Head sleeve anchors fa hayeck fan mentioned above.

If you move, then you can do as fasteddy said. Hammer them down below the slab and concrete over the holes.

[Mossy]

One last thing. Get a concealed carry permit and pack some heat. IF they get the drop on you, it's over. If they put a gun to a family member's head... if you don't open the safe, they will kill her. After you open the safe, they will kill you both.

Sounds like you've been reading FerFAL.

Few states require a permit for concealed carry inside the home. I strongly recommend that people carry while they are at home, permit or no. Home invasions are going to go up.

What is especially troubling is that they have been copying the dress and methods of the various police door kicker teams, and the police are kicking more and more doors.

Anyone else study the layout of the compound where bin Laden was found? They had a killing ground behind the main gate, with a second gate to the rest of the compound. I've read descriptions of some of the older dwellings/mini-forts, the parlor or room where visitors were entertained, just inside the front door, had firing slits around the walls, near the ceiling. I don't know how accurate that description was, but it sounds like an idea: Put the couches and coffee tables in a killing ground and screen visitors there.

Such a set up requires many fighters, at least a dozen, so that means an extended family.

[68Camaro]

What you want is a embedded safe poured into a reinforced concrete floor or wall, done after construction by a licensed and bonded installer, who is sworn to secrecy, and most importantly - hidden, only known to a handful of trusted people, and not easily detectable. An out-of-ground safe is fine for non-critical things (papers, guns, small amounts of PMs or cash), and is a good decoy, but - even bolted down - isn't sufficient for any signfiicant quantity of precious metals. Even the slash and grab bandits can grab ATMs, if sufficiently motivated, and ATMs are heavier and better attached than most anything you could install.

You want something that will require several hours to remove (if they even know it is there in the first place), and require several people and a big-ass jackhammer and a lot of noise in order to remove it.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

One last thing. Get a concealed carry permit and pack some heat. IF they get the drop on you, it's over. If they put a gun to a family member's head... if you don't open the safe, they will kill her. After you open the safe, they will kill you both.

Sounds like you've been reading FerFAL.

Few states require a permit for concealed carry inside the home. I strongly recommend that people carry while they are at home, permit or no. Home invasions are going to go up.

What is especially troubling is that they have been copying the dress and methods of the various police door kicker teams, and the police are kicking more and more doors.

Anyone else study the layout of the compound where bin Laden was found? They had a killing ground behind the main gate, with a second gate to the rest of the compound. I've read descriptions of some of the older dwellings/mini-forts, the parlor or room where visitors were entertained, just inside the front door, had firing slits around the walls, near the ceiling. I don't know how accurate that description was, but it sounds like an idea: Put the couches and coffee tables in a killing ground and screen visitors there.

Such a set up requires many fighters, at least a dozen, so that means an extended family.

I don't know what FerFal is. Yeah, you are right. I thought of the same thing after I made that post. You don't need a permit to have a gun on your person inside your home. And, even if you do it is better to be tried by 12 than carried out by 6. Have guns at the ready anyway and worry about bad gun laws after someone has given you a reason to defend yourself.

[Mossy]

I don't know what FerFal is. Yeah, you are right. I thought of the same thing after I made that post. You don't need a permit to have a gun on your person inside your home.

"Who", not "what". It's a posting name for someone who also calls himself "Fernando Aquire". I hope that is also a psuedo-nym as he lives in Argentina and posts about what he has done to keep himself and his wife alive, and gives away information that indicates he might have things worth stealing. He has also posted a few things that the Argentina fedgov might not like so much.

He made many posts as FerFAL before getting his blog site and many of the survivalist forums repost those. His more recent posts suggest to me that he is getting too much pressure to post new material so he is not thinking out what he writes as carefully as he did before. Still worth reading, you just have to read more words to get the same value.

I /think/ there are a couple of places where carrying handguns inside your own home is illegal, or people have to get special permits to even own a firearm. And people with a felony conviction cannot own any handguns in most parts of the US. (Percussion cap revolvers are the work around for federal laws. State laws might be a problem.)

"Shoot, shovel, shutup" or "feed the hogs" sure sounds reasonable, some days.

[Sheikh_yer_Bu'Tay]

[

"Shoot, shovel, shutup" or "feed the hogs" sure sounds reasonable, some days.

Hey, man, I have done the "Three S's" with an old neighbor's cat's! He had eighteen and a skunk! They were nasty and destructive. First I talked to him about it. Nothing happened. Then I would live-trap them and take them to the pound. He would go get them back out. Finally, I worked out a real good plan.

Trap them, Shoot them with a pellet gun, bag 'em, and shovel dirt on them. Shoot, shovel, shutup! He never figured it out. Then he moved away and left the last four to roam the neighborhood. Nut job! Don't know what ever happened to the skunk. Maybe he took it with him.

[Mossy]

"Kitty-phepher" time. Some of the older Europeans acquired a taste for "roof squirrel", back during/before WWII.